Young guy new to sailing; looking for a well recommended boat.

[scurvy]

Owned a Sabre 28 MK1 for years. Wonderful boat, spacious and a quicker boat than she looks. They can be a bit pricey, but the constuction is good. A bit tender at first, they stiffen up at about 22 degrees and it is a piece of cake from there on.
We just purchased an Albin Vega 27'. The construction is amazing (swedish design). The boat is bulletproof, the hull is dry....I might add that none of these Vegas have reported osmotic blistering...they did something right when laying these hulls. They are simple in design, like to go to weather, a sea-kindly motion, full keel for better tracking and balancing. They have circumnavigatied the globe on several occassions. These are great little boats at a very reasonable price. I think hellosailor hit the nail on the head with the Vegas! Gets my vote! (low maintenence costs after purchase as well)...something to consider. Try to avoid models with the "Combi" or Vega 022 gas engines. Many have been repowered with either outboards...which are "just OK" and new diesels. Good luck with your search.

[sailingdog]

Regardless of what boat you get, you will probably have to do some work to it to get it configured the way you want it to be. Reserving a part of the boat buying budget for these changes, modifications, upgrades is a good idea IMHO. I'd also agree with JeffH that getting a wheel steered boat is probably not such a good idea. A tiller steered boat in this size range is easier and faster to handle and will have fewer problems with the steering hardware. Also, setting up a tiller-steered boat for self-steering is generally easier than doing the same for a wheel steered boat.

[deckhanddave]

As someone that has gone through the "young beginner with high expectations for the future" bit (22 and currently rebuilding a Tartan 30) I can not stress enough, getting out there and trying it out . EVERYONE and their mother recomends the Alberg 30 as a jumping off point, in fact I looked at one that was abandoned by its 21 year old owner because he bit off more than he could chew. While I agree that it is a sturdy low priced boat, it might not appeal to people who like speed as well. Keep in mind the big factor I found was time. How much time are you willing to spend to upgrad or fix your boat? If you don't have the times or skills this factore gets converted into money. How much money do you have to fix up your boat. I agree with the rest of the forum on the wheel issue. Wheels started to feel good on boats that were over 35', under that they just felt awkward. When I was first looking I wanted wheel steering as well but soon realized how impractical it was (once you get under a very small space to inspect the steering cables you know how impractical it can be). When it comes to the older production boats, be wary of workmanship. I might be picky but in many of the boats I inspected I found things like shoddy bulkhead tabbing (my T30), dry and crumbling chopped glass (an A30), and my personal favorite, non existent fasteners (there were pilot holes in that Cat 30 but no hardware, and there never had been...). Keep in mind I said production, and all things vary. Regardless, welcome to the wonderful (and very much growing!) world of early 20's wana-be blue water sailors! We have that crazy glint in our eyes and the hope of salt in our veins. As an older friend of mine said "do it while you're in your 20's, you still think you're invicible".

[hellosailor]

dave-
"non existent fasteners (there were pilot holes in that Cat 30 but no hardware, and there never had been...). " A friend of mine had a Pearson32. The water fill was starboard side, but the galley was portside. And the external power connection and batteries were starboard side, but the wiring all crossed past the water lines, above the engine, under the bridgedeck, to reach the breaker panel on the port side.
We spent a lot of time wondering why on earth they crossed both systems instead of just running them each on just one side of the boat, then we finally figured it out. Monday morning, someone must have come in to work and said "Wow, that was a great party we had Friday night, And look! We finished another boat!"
Sometimes you wonder. Sometimes you don't.

[Goodnewsboy]

A C&C 27 is a well built, fast and seakindly boat that is often available in good condition at attractive prices. Perhaps not a "world cruiser" because of its spade rudder, but worth a look.

See:
http://www.cc27association.com/index.html

[chrisaugustine]

Ok, I've searched for over two years for another boat. I've been sailing since I was 9, I'm now 65, but I'm very active and in good health, my mother still drives a stick shift in New Jersey and she is
93. I intend to live a long time. My last boat was an Islander 30 in Southern California. I have sailed in Maine, the Chesepeake, Long Island and the Virgin Islands but I'm mostly not a long distance voyager and that is only because of my work. The largest boat was a 38 ft Hinckley. Now, at this age, all I want is a small coastal cruiser and I think I have found one. This is a 1970 Coronado 25 in good shape with a custom interior.
Roller furler jib, two spinnakers, 1 main, fair to good standing rigging, fair running rigging, tiller, good wiring, two batteries, vhf, 2 anchors and 30ft of chain plus 200ft rode, the sails are in fair shape and need cleaning plus what I can see is a very small tear in main (half inch) (to be repaired), bottom is in good shape, although I would haul it out and repaint both the bottom and the rest of the boat sometime this spring. Below decks she is clean and pretty with good wood, new head, no stove, bilge is slightly moist from leak in sink that can be repaired easily, a Yamaha 9.9 2 stroke outboard, overhauled this past month (Dec 2006) by the factory. Lots of extra useable goodies like a flair gun, emergency medical kit, a horseshoe and life jackets for 6, extra lines, in other words some decent equipment that I wouldn't have to buy. I figure a survey and a bottom survey and the deal should be done if it all is ok. The owner is the third owner of this boat.
Now, after all of that information, is the question. The asking price is $5500.00. The slip price is $300 a month, a bit high, but in LA, at the marina you run the risk of buying a boat and maybe not having a slip if your not careful. The marinas are also being redone and some of the existing slips will be gone at the cheaper prices in less than a year or so. I don't want to get caught up in that. So I'm ok with that slip price. But I want to negotiate the price of the boat down. Starting at 3000. Is that a fair price for this boat? I see it as a boat that is 37 years old. I won't pay $5500 for it. The boat brand new in 1970 money was $6500. And I've read the entire web site for the Coronado group. Any thoughts would be appreciated. You guys all have different ideas on everything so let me know what you think and I'll take it from there. The deal if it happens goes ahead the day after Christmas.
Thanks,
Chris

[hellosailor]

Chris, I would suggest that you are buying a factory (??) overhauled Yamaha 9.9 of whatever vintage, and the rest is being thrown in with it. That's a $2500 MSRP engine, new, a fast lookup tells me it is worth maybe $1000-1500 as a used engine with someone's warranty on it. If you are getting the slip with the boat, again, the boat becomes just a bonus and you're paying a "key fee" for the access to the slip, that's not uncommon.
So if you figure the engine and the "key fee" are worth $2000 together...getting a working boat that isn't derelict and meets your needs for only a thousand more would be a steal. Getting it for the asking price, probably isn't all bad either--if it really is in good shape, no structural issues.
But there's only one way to set a value on a used boat. Make 'em an offer, they'll either take it or not. Boats in that AGE and size range, really, who can say if they're worth a thousand more or less, sight unseen?

[camaraderie]

Chris...I will delve into a bit of seller psychology here and say that the reason the owner has priced her at $5500 which is an "unnatural" price point is that he expects to negotiate a 10% reduction in price and walk away with $5000 bucks clear which is what in his mind the boat is "worth". Your goal is to get it as cheaply as you can.
The one C25 on yachtworld is listed at $3900 which means you could probably get her for 3-3.5 grand and it does include a 9.9 HP and 2 sets of sails. You can use this boat to say to the owner...
"your boat is very nice..but your asking price is 40% higher than the same model boat similarly equipped. Now I know I could get lower than the asking price on the boat in Texas but I don't want to make the trip especially when I really like this boat. Could we do the deal for $4k? "

You may be surprised by the answer but if not...you can still negotiate! If this was a pure "boat" transaction...I wouldn't pay over $3k given your description...but since the slip is part of the deal you hav to decide how much more that is worth to you. At $4500 you would at least have gotten the better of the deal!
Note: Some owners have a bottom line and get really hard nosed below that and this guy may say..."I'm not going one cent below $5000 bucks."
To that you can reply: "Do you think you'll sell the boat by January 1st? If not, you've effectively reduced the price you'll get to $4700...and February 1st would mean $4400 with the slip fees. In fact...if it takes you 90 days or more to sell the boat, my $4000 offer will look good and you know that many old boats just sit there until the right buyer comes along. Why don't we do the deal today and you'll have the money in your pocket and I'll be able to go sailing?"

Be prepared to walk away for a month or two if you aren't satisfied with the price. There are a lot more decent 25 footers on the market than there are buyers!
Good luck & I'll be interested to hear how it turns out.

[sailingdog]

Well said Cam...

[sailaway21]

Solid advice from Cam. You've got to be willing to walk away, leaving your phone number of course.