The Real Cost of Ownership

[Sailormann]

Gee SD - I'm thinking you can definitely come stand over here with the rest of us obsessives...

[denby]

As far as sails cost, I have a O'day 302 and have quotes from three sail makers for a full batten main and a 140% genny running between $2,200 and $2,600 with sail covers.

Dennis

[JustMeUC]

I was planning on getting a Catalina 22 or similiar to learn on. Something in the $5,000-$6,000 range. Keep it for a few years then sell it and move up to a bigger boat. What kind of yearly maintenance cost am I looking at for a little boat like that if it is in average shape for a 20 year old boat? I am not looking for storage, slip costs etc, just maintenence costs.

I am not on a seriously tight budget but I am quickly getting scared after reading some of these posts!!

[hellosailor]

There's a wide, REAL WIDE, variation in sail prices. You know, like a $4.95 t-shirt at WalMart versus once for $24.95 from LLBean?

Some of the sailmaker web sites, like Airforce, run by the Sailet founders (now separate) will actually price out sails for many boats, with varying options. I'd call them mid-priced, not as high as a custom North or Harken, not as cheap as a Chinese mail-order. The best reality check is to price a main and genoa, see what they quote, and realize that's a middle ground.

Sail prices also vary depending on when you need them. During the pre-season rush when everyone wants it NOW, they will cost you a good deal more than "I'll take them anytime this winter" prices.

Ditto for rigging--I'm thinking of a quote someone recently posted for a somewhat larger boat, but if you call up a respected rigger and say "Come take the old stuff and replace it with new stuff" you'll get sticker shock. As opposed to taking your rigging down at the end of the season, measuring it all up, and mail-ordering it over the winter. Again, a lot of variation. The best way to find out "for sure" would be to either call or stop by a local rigger--one with a good reputation--and tell 'em you're planning to buy a boat, if you need it rerigged what's the ballpark. (If they're any good, they'll realize you are a potential customer and they won't mind at all.)

Funny thing about boats, some things scale up or down with size, others hurt just the same for everything.

Now, if you want a life raft for that crossing to the islands or sailing among them...don't even ask, life raft prices are scarier than sharks. And the damned things have a limited repack life, figure you can amortize it out over ten years and then it is replacement time.

A lot of "budget sailing" can be done--if you know what you are getting into and you do the labor yourself, along with some careful shopping.

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by tommyt

Good Luck. You can do this sport on a shoestring or with a fat wallet. Sometimes I think the shoestrings seem to have just as much, if not more, fun.

Definitely as a cruiser you can spend (or not spend) with a greater degree of latitude. I have "former race sails" recut and I use 'em as cruise sails on my old boat. At $250-$400 per, amortized over five seasons, I get better sails than the 20 year old Dacrons at one-tenth the price of new. Race guys have a narrow sense of "used up and blown out" that a good sailmaker can fix to the point of 85-90% of original (especially if it's only a two- or three-season sail). While this is "unacceptable" to a club racer, it makes my boat go better than the blown-out Dacron sails, which I get to keep if I need them in the rafters of my garage.

Winches can be serviced and motors rebuilt. The only thing I think shouldn't be shortcutted is the electrical system, because code changes happen for a reason and some good old boats are not remotely to current code, no pun intended.

On the old boat, we cooked on a camp stove in the cockpit, and brought a Koolatron instead of pulling apart the icebox and redoing the degraded urea insulation and throwing in a cold plate. That suited us, and it kept the weight right down. On the new boat are a lot more "amenities" that we will maintain until they break, and then we'll have to make some hard decisions as to what "quality of life" factors we want to shell out for.

Boating is funny in that you can pay and pay and not sail a tenth of a knot faster, or you can do it on the cheap and keep things simple. Some things, like LED lighting and decent VHF and GPS handhelds, mean that you can read in your bunk at night, know where you are and hear the weather with little cost in boat bucks. Others, like refrigeration or "entertainment centers" or pressure hot water, take time and money to maintain. But the beauty is that it's each owner's choice.

[josira]

Originally Posted by UrroPlatz

I am retiring in 2 years. At that time I would like to buy a 28-30 boat to take down to the Bahamas in the winter and keep here on the east coast in the summer. I am currently taking sailing lessons and hope to meet a few folks here locally to crew/sail with in the meantime.

Here's my real question. After reading this board and others I am starting to fear I am in over my head financially with this grand idea. I keep hearing about maintenance costs that just seem very high. I want to ask the experts about the real cost of ownership. I think I have the insurance and slip fee information I need. It is the maintenance part that has me concerned.

I have about $50,000 - $60,000 to purchase a boat and can spend perhaps $3,000 a year (average) on maintenance. I realize some years might be more some might be less. But ON AVERAGE I just could not spend much more than that. Is this realistic?

Would I be better off purchasing a 4 or 5 year old production boat, Catalina maybe, and hope for very little maintenance for several years or should I go for a 15 or 20 year old (tartan/pearson/Oday) better quality boat and do a refitting on it right away and hope that takes care of most future major maintenance? What would it realistically cost to really take an older boat and put it in tip top shape? I have no mechanical ability and am too old to learn now so any maintenance would be be done by professionals.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my very inexperienced questions.

Go for it... but buy as new as you can afford. I'm an 'alien', being British with a yacht (Beneteau 351) based in Greece, but I have what I consider to be relevant experience. I've kept my 1998-built boat in Greece since it came off charter (it was a good way to pay for her) in 2003, and have always had repairs and maintenance done by professionals. The advantage is that most professionals 'know' recent designs - and there is therefore competition for your business (= competitive pricing). Old boats need craftsmanship - which is available, but expensive.
Similarly, problems are relatively easy to categorise - and therefore obtain reliable quotations for - as opposed to the "well, we'll take a look, then quote you" approach of old-boat craftsmen.
As for 10% - 20%, where does that old wives' tale come from?
Don't get me wrong; I love old boats, but I wouldn't be able to afford to keep one in the manner to which it's entitled!

[camaraderie]

JustMe...for a Catalina 22 on a trailer you face VERY little annual maintenance since you don't even need bottom paint and there are no systems to worry about. As long as your rig and hull and sails are in good shape to begin with you can just worry about the outboard for a while!

[JustMeUC]

Thanks camaraderie, but if I kept in the water at Oriental or Belhaven or somewhere for March-Oct I assume that would increase the maintenance costs alot? (I realize I would then have to pay slip fees of course) I just know if I had to trailer it somewhere then I wouldn't use it nearly as much as if I could just drive a couple hours and hop in and away I go.

[FrankLanger]

I had a 22 foot boat a few years ago before buying a larger boat. I used to budget about $500 per year in maintenance and insurance--new lines, bottom paint, wax, varnish, paint brushes, sandpaper, motor tune-up. It all adds up--some years were a bit more, most were around there or a bit less, not including slip fees and operating costs like fuel. Of course, if you have to replace the sails, that's a much larger "one time" expenditure.
I hope that helps.
Frank.

[Bump]

Let me say again. I have a 28 foot Mariner. I bought new basic crusing sails ( partial battens and one reef point on main) and a 135 genie for a total of $2800.00. They were custom made in the late spring in about two weeks from a very reputable local sailmaker. I got many quotes and all were within a few hundred dollars.My standing rigging, lifelines (single) and bridge deck traveler were replaced, professionally, for $2500.00. These items should last 10-12 years before needing replacement. I cruise not race and I think that makes a big difference in equipment and maintenance costs. Sailing is not cheep but a budget of 2-3500 annually is reasonable for a boat that has been brought up to snuff in its major systems. Buy a sound boat, invest in some upgrades and refits and have fun.