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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2007
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Business vehicle for field inspection of waterfront architectural projects - from a waterside vantage point, of course. The marina expenses are necessary for storage of the inspection vehicle - just as parking garage fees are a deduction for dedicated business cars.

Perfectly legitimate.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2007
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"The boat being the primary office and storage facility."
Sure, as long as you don't misuse the business office for personal purposes. And as long as that business makes a profit in 3 out of 5 years, otherwise the IRS may declare it to be a hobby and void all your business deductions.
If you aren't familiar with how the IRS looks at "business versus personal" either you buy some time with a CPA/EA, or you go to the IRS web site and start reading periodicals. As long as you can meet their express criteria, you're fine. If you have to ask whether you can get away with something...you're going to pay taxes, penalties, interest, and fines when you get caught out on it. Some people avoid those for years--but there's no statute of limitations on tax fraud, they get to compound the interest back to day one.
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Old 09-08-2007
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In Canada our law just states that there is a reasonable expectation that at some point it will be profitable..many businesses run losses for many years before they are profitable. We can deduct 15% depreciation per year plus interest on the mortgage and interest and any other expenses..ie moorage, maint etc etc.
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Old 09-08-2007
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"a reasonable expectation "
A nice concept, as the tax examiner sits you down and says "Well now, you've never had any experience with this type of business, you've done no marketing, hired no help, and exactly what reason did you think there was that it was going to succeed?"
I don't think our IRS is forced to use the 3/5 years criteria for hobby/business, it is ust one of the ways they have to take the question of "And what drugs were you smoking when you got this idea?" out of the process. < G >
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Old 09-08-2007
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Now you guys are taking it to the extreme, if I do this I will do it for real not just to cheat the IRS. I have done it before as a consultant used an office in my house marketed, hired other consultants when needed and made a profit! Believe it or not. So I am confident I can do the same living on my boat, and if I do I will use the tax laws to my benefit, who wouldn't? Even though I think there is to much government meddling in our lives I will obey the miserable laws the IRS has in place. I too have seen the results of tax cheaters and don't want to go there because it could cause me to miss those great sunset's sailing wing on wing. :-)

Last edited by zaldog : 09-08-2007 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 09-08-2007
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Zaldog-

Part of the problem is that the part of the boat you are writing off has to be used exclusively for your business... and unless you're boat is a lot bigger than mine is, I seriously doubt that you have any significant space on the boat that can be used exclusively for your business. If you're storing groceries in the space... it's not exclusive... if you sleep in the space...it's not exclusive...

Be my guest, but I think you're setting yourself up for a nice audit.
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Old 09-08-2007
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Part of it will for business, but what about the entire boat if it is used for underwater video and photography research purposes? I am certainly not thinking of doing this on my 27' Ericson. We are looking at 40' - 44' with at least 2 state rooms one being the office storage area. Besides I would rather have a nice audit than a bad one :-)
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Old 09-08-2007
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You should go spend some time with your accountant. As one put it there is a HUGE difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion..most likely the latter will involve some prison time even here in Canada. Perfectly fine to run a loss..my friend set his boat up in a charter fleet..first 2 years posted losses and 3rd made gain. Actually makes money from losses and depreciation (and gets to use a boat for free) The boat need to be available 100% for charter, but if nothing is booked there is nothing stopping him from taking it out for as long as it is available a week in advance. If you think you are doing something wrong you probably are..but a legit business eneterprise with consulations from a tax accountant and others who have been down this road will provide insight and opportunity. Yes bend and stretch their rules just dont break them with "intent"
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Old 09-08-2007
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Zaldog, please don't mistake this as accuding you or anyone of trying to pull off anything. We'd all love to be able to 100% deduct boats--but that's not so easy. Regardless of what the boat is used for, if you are living on it--it is not used exclusively for business.

If I'm a videographer, over or under water, and I use my car to get to and from locations, sure that's a 100% legal business deduction for the business use of the car. And there are specific rates and percents that I'm allowed to take. If the car is used less than 51% (?) for business purposes I can't write off the car, or percents of the car. I can only write off business mileage at the business rate. And if the car is registered to the business (as many people used to lease cars "just" for their business) and the IRS looks at the mileage records, looks at me and says "But it is your only car, and your personal use has outweighed the business use" guess who will be disallowed the business deductions for the car, and then penalized for trying to get away with it?

With a boat, especially a boat you are living on, unless you can document all business use and establish that it is not your residence--you probably will be allowed to deduct only the cost of the fuel your burned going to and from the locations. Unless the IRS has a "business boat mileage" rate, who knows.

This is an area where if you cannot afford to spend $100-200 with a tax CPA who is also an EA (Enrolled Agent with the IRS), you can't afford to entertain the idea of writing off the boat. ANYTHING "different" and "creative" and non-standard, attracts their attention. What people don't realize is that the IRS are in some ways sharper than the NSA or CIA. If you claim you own a diner or sandwich shop, they know exactly how many slices of bread, loaves of bread, slices of tomato and lettuce and pickle spears per sandwich, how many napkins, paper bags, and gallons of mayo the typical deli uses. All cross-referenced and percented.

You file a return that mysteriously don't match their percents--and that's an audit flag, because they know it is a cash business, infamous for cheating. And yes, they actually have gone into delis, buying lunch for a week and counting how many ounces of bologna or roast beef are on each sandwich.

But if you can find their rules--clear rules--that cover the use you want to follow, they'll let you do it. "My boat is strictly a business expense, I just sleep in the office" may not fly very well. < G >

The traditional, and fully IRS sanctioned, way to deduct your boat is to buy the boat, put it in formal charter service (hire a skipper or bareboat it, but also hire someone to bookthe charters and manage the boat), and BOOK IT YOURSELF AT THE USUAL PUBLIC RATES for your business trips. That way everything you spend is an arms-length transaction, and if you've done it right, you make money on the charter company as well. This is done, and sanctioned, for privately owned boats and aircraft alike. Any good CPA/EA should be familiar with how to set it up.

Last edited by hellosailor : 09-08-2007 at 09:11 PM.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2007
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HS - I'm not quite sure what tax forms you're filling out but the ones my accountants fill out for my business don't have any lines for mayo, ketchup, bread or buns
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