Catalina 38 SS Design

[zaldog]

Hello all, can anyone tell me what the design difference is betwwen the Sparkman & Stephens 38 and say a 1996 380 I am considering both. I understand that the interiors are very different, but what about sailing characteristics. Does the SS Design sail better/faster than the 380?

[sailingfool]

FWIW http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/base_handicaps has the S&S 38 at 114 and the 380 at 120, with adjustments for tall mast and wing keel variants. So the older boat should be a bit faster, but the difference is noise.

[Faster]

As you say, the interiors will be completely different, in layout and in scale and volume.

The S&S 38 is a classic, tumblehome design that Frank Butler had a big hand in when he was at S&S, before striking out to form Catalina on his own. As a boat of that era, it has the characteristic large "J", short "E" measurements that lead to large genoas and spinnakers and high aspect mainsail.
They are pretty boats, and would likely sail well within behavior patterns of that era of design. Upwind work should be fine, downwind could be a handful at times.
The narrow stern and high counter make today's ever more popular stern mooring practices problematic, esp compared to today's fashionable open transoms, and getting into and out of the dinghy is harder too.
This older design may well have better storage capability than the 380, as the new boats push their interiors out to the hull.

I'd expect a considerable price difference between these two choices.

[christyleigh]

Originally Posted by Faster

This older design may well have better storage capability than the 380, as the new boats push their interiors out to the hull.

That's possible ....but I doubt it. When you have over 12' to work with you can make a large interior and have lots left over for storage. For example my fat ass 11'9" beam c320 had a Queen size berth below the cockpit but Also had a port lazzertte large enough for a couple folded Dahons, a deflated dingy, and an arm load of PFD's. Then behind that were the stern lockers with enough room for 20 or 30 throwables for example. For volume you did get to have your cake and eat it too.... or store it

[BarryL]

Hello,

About the only thing those two Catalinas have in common is the length.

Barry

[Faster]

Originally Posted by christyleigh

That's possible ....but I doubt it. When you have over 12' to work with you can make a large interior and have lots left over for storage. For example my fat ass 11'9" beam c320 had a Queen size berth below the cockpit but Also had a port lazzertte large enough for a couple folded Dahons, a deflated dingy, and an arm load of PFD's. Then behind that were the stern lockers with enough room for 20 or 30 throwables for example. For volume you did get to have your cake and eat it too.... or store it

True the "fat ass" boats have large voluminous cockpit lockers, but my perception is that the storage below for things like food, utensils, pots and pans etc is suffering with newer designs with open floor plans and widely separated settees that don't have the traditional lockers behind seatbacks and such. Shallower hull forms tend to put tankage beneath such structures as berths and bunks so these areas are unavailable too.

[zaldog]

Originally Posted by Faster

As you say, the interiors will be completely different, in layout and in scale and volume.

The S&S 38 is a classic, tumblehome design that Frank Butler had a big hand in when he was at S&S, before striking out to form Catalina on his own. As a boat of that era, it has the characteristic large "J", short "E" measurements that lead to large genoas and spinnakers and high aspect mainsail.
They are pretty boats, and would likely sail well within behavior patterns of that era of design. Upwind work should be fine, downwind could be a handful at times.
The narrow stern and high counter make today's ever more popular stern mooring practices problematic, esp compared to today's fashionable open transoms, and getting into and out of the dinghy is harder too.
This older design may well have better storage capability than the 380, as the new boats push their interiors out to the hull.

I'd expect a considerable price difference between these two choices.

Yes around $50K of a price diff between the 2. That's why I am considering the SS design. I like the classic tumblehome design it looks safer for big seas than an open transom. What problems would the SS design have going downwind?

[Gene T]

You will want to do a search for Catalina Smile prior to buying the old C38, it's not a good thing.

As Barry pointed out, the only thing in common between these boats is the length and manufacturer. There was also another C38 that was not a C&C design between these 2 in ages that is also completely different.

[CharlieCobra]

Originally Posted by zaldog

Yes around $50K of a price diff between the 2. That's why I am considering the SS design. I like the classic tumblehome design it looks safer for big seas than an open transom. What problems would the SS design have going downwind?

Just the typical IOR behavior of being rather squirrely DDW with a spin up, They have a tendency to wanna double dip, first the spin pole, then the boom. As ya fall off to more of a Broad reach, the rolling subsides. This behavior was the reason behind the invention and use of Bloopers flown high to dampen the rolling effect.

[zaldog]

Originally Posted by Gene T

You will want to do a search for Catalina Smile prior to buying the old C38, it's not a good thing.

As Barry pointed out, the only thing in common between these boats is the length and manufacturer. There was also another C38 that was not a C&C design between these 2 in ages that is also completely different.

By smile I think you are referring to keel hull separation from a possible hard grounding or other hull damage.