hunter 212 vs. US 21 vs. First 235 vs. MacGregor 26s

[blt2ski]

have you looked at the San Juan 21? Granted quit being built about 85 or there abouts. PHRF IIRC is in the low 200's, but do not quote me on that one. They are a bit tippy initially tho, so that might throw it out for the GF.

Marty

[CalebD]

Everyone loves bashing the Mac 26 as if they all carried 50HP outboard engines and were really motorboats imitating a sailboat. The older versions of the Mac 26 (the 'S' model for instance) do not have a transom that will hold much more than a 10 HP engine AND you can not empty the water ballast (once filled) as you can in the motor boat models (X and M - which will plane after emptying the ballast with 50 horses pushing it along).
I have sailed on the Mac 26 S and even though am not crazy about the way the boat looks I must say that it sailed pretty well for its size. The headsail (jib) is a bit undersized on my friends 26 S but it needs to be as the boat is still a little tender even with the water ballast full. This gives it some weather helm which is a little unpleasant for long runs.
As far as comfort goes, I doubt any of the other model boats you are considering can match the Mac 26 S. Room enough between decks to sleep 6, enclosed head compartment, byo galley, pop top allows standing room for most. Another advantage this boat might have on Lake Champlain is that with the centerboard up it draws around 1 foot so you could explore more places with thin water. I think that this boat makes a pretty good camping platform and it is trailerable without a powerful truck given short distances.
I would not want to get caught on this boat in a howling wind or derecho on Lake Champlain but for normal light air use it is a decent boat - IMHO.

[T34C]

I don't think anyone was bashing. Besides, you said it all.

Originally Posted by CalebD

Everyone loves bashing the Mac 26 as if they all carried 50HP outboard engines and were really motorboats imitating a sailboat. The older versions of the Mac 26 (the 'S' model for instance) do not have a transom that will hold much more than a 10 HP engine AND you can not empty the water ballast (once filled) as you can in the motor boat models (X and M - which will plane after emptying the ballast with 50 horses pushing it along).
I have sailed on the Mac 26 S and even though am not crazy about the way the boat looks I must say that it sailed pretty well for its size. The headsail (jib) is a bit undersized on my friends 26 S but it needs to be as the boat is still a little tender even with the water ballast full. This gives it some weather helm which is a little unpleasant for long runs. As far as comfort goes, I doubt any of the other model boats you are considering can match the Mac 26 S. Room enough between decks to sleep 6, enclosed head compartment, byo galley, pop top allows standing room for most. Another advantage this boat might have on Lake Champlain is that with the centerboard up it draws around 1 foot so you could explore more places with thin water. I think that this boat makes a pretty good camping platform and it is trailerable without a powerful truck given short distances.
I would not want to get caught on this boat in a howling wind or derecho on Lake Champlain but for normal light air use it is a decent boat - IMHO.

[zemaniak]

Originally Posted by Jeff_H

Two quick comments;

There is nothing particularly fast about the US21. They were loosely based on then popular IOR era designs and so the deep keel version went to windward pretty well for a boat of that era but are not all that fast on any other point of sail.

On Lake Champlain known for light air mixed with square waves and very big winds, the poor sailing abilities at either end of the wind range would nix the Kenner, as it would the Mcgregor and Hunter as well.

Jeff

Thx for contributing Jeff,
But if you don't mind me asking, why would the Hunter be awful in light air? it's very light, and has a ballasted centerboard, so it should be rather stiff and responsive. The one i tried in Florida sure seemed to be, although winds were NOT light that day. Of course it could use a bigger jib, but that can always be added. As for heavy winds, well, it only has one reef (could use a 2nd), but with that and the jib removed (or a storm jib), seemed pretty lively and still solid (15-20 knots that day). I won't go into spinnakers as I have limited experience...

As for the US 21, well, same goes: light boat, heard it was stiff and responsive, comes w/ full sails and spinnaker, what would make it slow downwind? and which small boats (19'-24' (or more if it's light)) would you see as being superior while still having a few interior comforts?

thanks!

[Sailormann]

SharkBytes | Shark Sailing | Shark One Design | Shark Sailboat | Canadian Shark Class Association | International Shark Class Association

[Faster]

Originally Posted by Sailormann

SharkBytes | Shark Sailing | Shark One Design | Shark Sailboat | Canadian Shark Class Association | International Shark Class Association

Once a Shark owner, always a Shark booster, eh, Sailorman?

Sharks may well be available in his area too.

I'm with you, the Shark was our first boat, and it's a great starter. But I'm not sure it can compete with today's boats like the Bene 235 in volume/accomodation, and it's likely no faster except perhaps in a hell of breeze downwind.

[Sailormann]

I'm with you, the Shark was our first boat, and it's a great starter. But I'm not sure it can compete with today's boats like the Bene 235 in volume/accomodation, and it's likely no faster except perhaps in a hell of breeze downwind.

There are a lot of things that the newer boats do better, but a Shark holds its value and just feels nicer underneath you than a lot of other craft.

[mdbee]

I have found that the excessive weather helm was corrected by properly adjusting the mast. The Ida sailor rudder made a slight improvement as well.

It is too bad many of the posters here are confusing the earlier Mac 26's D or S (dagger board or swing board) which are collectively known as "C" (classic) models with the motor sailor models X or M.

Originally Posted by CalebD

Everyone loves bashing the Mac 26 as if they all carried 50HP outboard engines and were really motorboats imitating a sailboat. The older versions of the Mac 26 (the 'S' model for instance) do not have a transom that will hold much more than a 10 HP engine AND you can not empty the water ballast (once filled) as you can in the motor boat models (X and M - which will plane after emptying the ballast with 50 horses pushing it along).
I have sailed on the Mac 26 S and even though am not crazy about the way the boat looks I must say that it sailed pretty well for its size. The headsail (jib) is a bit undersized on my friends 26 S but it needs to be as the boat is still a little tender even with the water ballast full. This gives it some weather helm which is a little unpleasant for long runs.
As far as comfort goes, I doubt any of the other model boats you are considering can match the Mac 26 S. Room enough between decks to sleep 6, enclosed head compartment, byo galley, pop top allows standing room for most. Another advantage this boat might have on Lake Champlain is that with the centerboard up it draws around 1 foot so you could explore more places with thin water. I think that this boat makes a pretty good camping platform and it is trailerable without a powerful truck given short distances.
I would not want to get caught on this boat in a howling wind or derecho on Lake Champlain but for normal light air use it is a decent boat - IMHO.

[LakeEscape]

Good review of some Good Old Boats.

1986 SBJ SAILBOAT SEA TRIALS

Fair Winds

[djodenda]

Originally Posted by Faster

Once a Shark owner, always a Shark booster, eh, Sailorman?

Me too... Shark.... Good....