Could use some help...

[kwaziwampo]

Hello all.
Lurker for the past few weeks, and I can't say enough about these forums. They've been extremely useful in so many ways getting into sailing, it's ridiculous.

So to my question...
The wife and I recently took Basic Keelboat courses. We learned on a 1975 Catalina 25 (non-racing). This past weekend, I test sailed a 1980 MacGregor 25 (swing keel).

All I can say is WOW. From what I understand, Cat's aren't the greatest performance boat, but the MacGregor was completely different. It healed extremely easily, to the point of being uncomfortable. The Cat, in 15 knot winds felt stable. The MacGregor in 5 knot winds did not. Now, I'm relatively novice, so I'm not knocking Mac's at all...the krux of my question...

What was the difference? Is it as simple as weight? The swing keel?

Also, it didn't seem to point as easily (and it seemed very slow). Didn't understand the term until the test sail.

Post this sail, I believe I may be wanting a cruiser/racer. Based on price, I may want to go with a 21/22' boat. Would I find stability in that size boat? I'm looking at a San Juan 21, and will be reading boat reviews to try to narrow things down.

Any and all assistance is appreciated!

[sailingdog]

Kwazi-

Some boats are fairly tender, others are a bit stiffer. MacGregors, depending on the model, can be good, bad or somwhere in-between. However, most MacGregors, especially the recent "hybrids", have fairly lousy sailing characteristics IMHO.

Finding a cruiser/racer in that range limits your options...but the San Juans may be a good choice. However, I don't have any experience on the San Juans, so can't say...

I would also suggest you read the post in my signature to help you get the most of your time spent here on sailnet.

[lbdavis]

There are a lot of factors that go into sailboat design and there are people on this board WAY more qualified than I to discuss them, but having a basic understanding of these factors will help you get a decent idea of what a boat will be like.

From this site:



Understanding all these ratios and numbers will be a good start to understanding some basic principals of naval architecture. In your case, one of the largest contributing factors to the difference you felt is that the Catalina displaces twice as much as the Macgregor.

Of course, I have said nothing to hull design, overhangs, rigs, etc that also contribute greatly to the whole package.

Hope this helps!

[kwaziwampo]

Great-those posts are both extremely helpful. Read up on the new poster item, and that calculator is great!

I'd be utterly lost without this site.

[PBzeer]

Rather than the SJ21, look for a 24. Very nice sailing boats, well built and roomy for their size.

[timebandit]

"What was the difference? Is it as simple as weight? The swing keel?

Also, it didn't seem to point as easily (and it seemed very slow). Didn't understand the term until the test sail."

Sounds like a Mac-25 when the keel is not cranked down and locked.

Rick

[blt2ski]

Been awhile since I sailed an SJ21, but I recall them being tender at first, then stiffening up as they heeled over. Fast for there size. a bit cramped, but a nice boat none the less.

I'd still like to figure out how to get a 10-11M TS like Alex has on the west coast of US!

marty

[kwaziwampo]

I agree on the keel...I asked the owner, and he said it was down. I really don't see how that boat could be regularly sailed if it was up...so you're probably right.

Good point on the SJ24...any thoughts on a Ranger 22?

I'm really looking for something that can go fast around all these islands out here (San Juans), but can handle weather.

[Plumper]

I like the Mull designed Ranger 23. It is fast and fun. (like all his designs)

[blt2ski]

Another question, are you going to store trailered? or storing in water? latter, ie mooring it, makes a lot of boat choices open up for here in the NW and San Juans. Another to think about, since we get currents upwards of 6-8 knots, a strong motor option is a must, as many times, even if it is windy, one will need to motor thru some channels.

Some other questions, how much head room etc do you need, or spouse needs. Some floor plans styles of boat will fit you, not fit spouse.

Shoal keels are in reality, not really needed here in the NW< as you are usually sailing in at least 20', if not 600+ ft of water. You might as well go with as deep as you can, as it seems like you are either going up wind, deep keel help here a lot generally speaking, or your going down wind. yes there is some reaching now and again, but usually up or down.

I spent as a teen a lot of time in a 21CB boat, loved it, wife just spent the weekend for the first time in our 29'r with head room for her, but she complained that it was too small, no shower etc. Would not want to know how she would like being in a 21' no standing head room with a bucket for a potty!

Get into a lot of boats, see how you will use etc, other wise, the options are to a degree endless.

marty