bluewater on the cheap

[johnshasteen]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

SC31's are certainly blue water boats but be careful of the cored hulls if you look for one. Get a solid one and it will go anywhere. I am not a big fan of big sprits and bob stays for sea duty but they do make a good looking boat.

John...Jeff_H is another moderator and a most knowledgeable and experienced racing sailor and "expert" on many different types of boats from his time in the industry. There is in my opinion, no one here that has more knowledge about more types of boats than Jeff.
This does not make him the "boat god" but it does mean his opinions are worth listening to. I disagree with him all the time on specific boats that I think are well suited to bluewater and he does not. On the other hand, he has made me aware of other considerations in boat design AND other brands and models that would be suitable. I'm sure he will hop on here to discuss the 29.9 further...but my guess is that he did NOT say that the 29.9 is not built well and ocean capable. My guess is that he feels the design is not as well suited for sea duty as some others due to the hull form or sail plan, tankage etc. . Suggest you wait and see what he has to say before dismissing it.

As to the Cape Dory's ....Jeff doesn't like them for sea duty but the CD36 would be my own "ideal single hander" ...especially the new ones being built by robin hood in Maine....I'm a sucker for a bowsprit!

As I said, I have not doubt Jeff H is very well versed and I would take nothing away from that. But I have been sailing for 50 years and almost all in blue water and have many miles of ocean racing (Marion to Hamilton, Galveston to Vera Cruz, Galveston to Isla Mujeres, etc) as well as mostly cruising. My dad had a Hinckley B40 on which I made four Bermuda races as far back as the '60's, and I've owned a Columbia 28, Easward Ho 24, Bayfield 29 and my current boat of many years the Bristol. Tankage on boats you take to sea are certainly a consideration, but they can be supplemented. On the other hand, I would not go to sea in 75% of the racing boats on the circuit today or any other boat with a fin keel/spade rudder underbody - look at the recent Cape Fear 38 disaster, couldn't happen with a full keel boat, or a cutaway forefoot/skeg rudder configuration.

[wumhenry]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

SC31's are certainly blue water boats but be careful of the cored hulls if you look for one. Get a solid one and it will go anywhere. I am not a big fan of big sprits and bob stays for sea duty but they do make a good looking boat.

They're solid glass from the keel to the turn of the bilge and airex cored above that. Airex doesn't rot or get mushy when wet and provides insulation from sound, heat, and cold.

I disagree with him [Jeff H] all the time on specific boats that I think are well suited to bluewater and he does not. On the other hand, he has made me aware of other considerations in boat design AND other brands and models that would be suitable. I'm sure he will hop on here to discuss the 29.9 further...but my guess is that he did NOT say that the 29.9 is not built well and ocean capable. My guess is that he feels the design is not as well suited for sea duty as some others due to the hull form or sail plan, tankage etc. . Suggest you wait and see what he has to say before dismissing it.

I PMed him and hope he'll chime in soon.

I have discussed the B29.9 with him in PMs, and he sailed in mine one afternoon last September, after which he said it's "a good boat," but I think he said later in a Sailnet message that the 29.9 is one of a number of boats in Tahaina's list that aren't really well-suited for bluewater cruising. I'm still not sure exactly what his rap is against the 29.9. He has a high opinion of the Bristol 34, on the other hand, which doesn't seem all that different in design from the 29.9 -- including low-cut companionway sill and absence of a bridge deck. (FWIW, both were designed by Halsey Herreshof.)

[seabreeze_97]

You want the truth? Get yourself a copy of "Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts" and read it. Then make your decision. It is a compilation by names such as Stephens, Ewing, Griffith, Kirkman, Lapworth, and others equally esteemed and qualified. They do have, after all, thousands of bluewater miles beneath their collective keels (dozens of transatlantic crossings, etc.), and hundreds of well-known designs to their credit. That's important......hundreds of well-known designs. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding, and the men who wrote this book have it by the, ahem, boatload. Never ever let your decision be based on the opinions of one source. Times may change, but standards, and the realities of sailing, remain.

As far as the bridge deck on the Bristol 32, while the addition of a bridge deck can improve structural strength on some lightly constructed boats, the Bristol 32 is already so heavily built, the deck's contribution would be minimal to that point. As for limiting seawater entry, securing the lower board in the companionway will accomplish the same thing.

[chris_gee]

It is one thing putting out a theoretical view but Jeff allows exceptions.
One being if you are sailing the Chesapeake and may go to the Bahamas at some point in the future your needs may be different from say mine.
Two if you were fit young and well crewed you may be less conservative than others.
As a contrary example many have found Westsails a secure blue water vessel, albeit that certain criticismas can be made as part of a balanced overall appraisal.
In your case I would make the point that a cheap blue water boat is unlikely at least as it stands, but sure small size helps.
I have a limited budget and have looked at this closely.
The problem is many boats may be suitable more or less. I would not want to sail long on a less than 30 or even 35' but it depends how many wifes you have etc.
However the costs of bringing it up to bluewater (and few are in this state) are high. Think SSB, Liferaft Epirb, and selfsteering, plus almost certainly re- rigging, and storm sails probably 20K US regardless of boat size and price, never mind the other bits that need to be done on an old boat. These costs are more or less fixed regardless of size and age but as a % of a cheaper boat are higher.
However some of these costs can be reduced substantially by buying used. But not all. I gather a new liferaft may be say 2600 US + but the service costs here are about 800 US. I have seen liferafts with service overdue 10 years and the owner on a passage taking the risk. Your choice.
Depending where you are and how many young women you want to entice to share cramped quarters you may be better if your finances are tight by using your boat on limited passages, and crewing on longer ones. One tropical island isn't that different from another.

[sailingdog]

Adding a bridge deck to most boats isn't all that difficult. I recently did this to my boat, at the beginning of last season. I would have to say that adding the bridge deck was a very good thing as the cabin is much drier when we're out sailing in heavier conditions. It also reduced the volume of the cockpit by about five cubic feet or 300 lbs of seawater, if theb boat were ever pooped. The cost in materials was probably about $250 to do the project for the plywood, fiberglass, epoxy and paint.

Originally Posted by wumhenry

One strike against the B29.9 for bluewater cruising is the absence of a bridge deck and the low-cut companionway sill. A guy who did an Atlantic circuit in a Bristol 32 a couple years ago had a bridge deck put in before he took off. That can't be cheap. In a luncheon talk to the Chesapeake Bristol Club, with yrs truly in attendance, he said he spent $50K on bluewater upgrades. Or maybe he said $75K. It was a lot, anyway.

[otaga05]

The one thing which would be a PITA about adding a bridge deck to the Bristol is that the cockpit drains are right in front of the companionway. I thought about doing on Chicory (Bristol 35.5), but with virtually no fiberglass experience I am not confident in my ability to make the drain nipples strong enough. Another consideration of a significant modification like this that the surveyor when I bought her warned me about is when you go to resell, changing the "style" of the boat like this can turn off some buyers. I decided to stick with securing the lower companionway board.

[sailingdog]

Very true, but I'm not planning on selling my boat. The cockpit drains were further aft, which was a bit simpler, and they drain directly overboard—no hoses. Originally, I tried securing the lower dropboard, but my crew kept removing it....and when you're out in 30 knots with 7-9' seas, water does get in the cockpit, and then down below, on a 28' boat. Now, they can't remove the bridge deck, it provides some more cockpit seating, and the cabin stays almost completely bone dry.

Originally Posted by otaga05

The one thing which would be a PITA about adding a bridge deck to the Bristol is that the cockpit drains are right in front of the companionway. I thought about doing on Chicory (Bristol 35.5), but with virtually no fiberglass experience I am not confident in my ability to make the drain nipples strong enough. Another consideration of a significant modification like this that the surveyor when I bought her warned me about is when you go to resell, changing the "style" of the boat like this can turn off some buyers. I decided to stick with securing the lower companionway board.

[johnshasteen]

Originally Posted by wumhenry
One strike against the B29.9 for bluewater cruising is the absence of a bridge deck and the low-cut companionway sill. A guy who did an Atlantic circuit in a Bristol 32 a couple years ago had a bridge deck put in before he took off. That can't be cheap :QUOTE

If you think you want a permanent bridge deck, put in the lower hatch board, then caulk around it. Cheap and later, when you realize that the 29.9 doesn't need a bridge deck, you can take it out.

[wumhenry]

Originally Posted by johnshasteen

Paloma probably isn't any more heavily rigged than your Bristol, but has the following equipment and outfitting: top of the line Hood heavy-duty sails with a three-reef main, EPRIB, life raft, parachute drogue, Type A life preservers and an abandon ship bag, etc.

Still wondering where you stow the raft.

How old is your standing rigging? Mine passed annual inspection by a boatyard rigger this year, but I don't know how old it is. My guess is that it's as old as the boat.

[sailboy21]

Originally Posted by wumhenry

Could this be an exception that proves the rule?
1975 Southern Cross Cutter Boat For Sale

Hey, I think I've been on that boat! About 7 years ago if memory serves....

Rules? With used boats there are no rules! However $40K for a 33 year old 30 footer doesn't sound like much an exception. But hey, it comes with fishing poles. How cool is that?