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Cal 21 Keel

23K views 57 replies 10 participants last post by  smrozek 
#1 ·
I am planning to doing some work on the keel of my Cal 21. I have done a thorough online search in hopes to gain some more info but have come up a bit short on detail. The keel leaks when the boat is heavy or has decent speed. I believe the leak is coming in around the pin. I plan on removing the fiberglass around the pin to get a better look to see what surprises I might find. If anyone has worked on their keel and has some advice please get in touch. I would love to have pics, advice, anything before getting started.
 
#2 ·
I have a 1972 Cal T4 that has a fixed keel with 2000 lb of lead at the bottom of the keel. When I had it hauled out 6 months ago I was concerned about the keel bolts because the boat is over 30 years old but she wasn't leaking like yours. I had the guys that were repairing my boat come in and drill down through the bilge to put self- taping threaded stainless steel rods, 8" long, into the lead keel and then had them put washers and stainless steel nuts on. They then encapsulated them in some sort of epoxy to keep the air and moisture out. I had them put two at each end and two in the middle for a total of eight. I am not sure if a Cal 21 has a lead keel or a steel bullet keel like the Cal 20. If it is a lead keel like mine I would recommend not dropping the keel unless you just have to because it will cost you a lot more to do that and replace the bolts than just have more put in like I did. The second option that I looked at was to have them encase the keel in fiber glass but that was going to cost more than putting the bolts in. I think the later model Cal's all had their lead keels encased in fiber glass but I could be wrong. Just an idea, good luck with the keel.
 
#3 ·
Hi Sailnova, there is a little bit online about the actual keel and the bushing the keel pivots on.

www3.sympatico.ca/sailpair/21stuff/21keel.html

From the above "With the age of all Cal 21's now, all owners should check this at least once to determine it's condition." it sounds like if you are getting leaking in through the keel pivot you are probably wise to get in there and check out what's going on throughout the whole system. I haven't removed a cal 21 keel from the pivot. I'd guess that you want to 1) remove the pivot, 2)take the keel out of the slot, 3) check rusting integrity of keel, 4) check keel slot/trunk (re-glass trunk if cracked or questionable) 5) throw it all back together. Are there gaskets around the pivot, maybe it's just shot gaskets? Anyway, this doesn't answer any questions, but a few things to look into. Anyone with details on the pivot connection, experience, or known pitfalls in this?
 
#4 ·
sailnova, My 21 is a 1971 version. Just acquired it this winter. Plan to drop the keel this Spring and make it look and work like it did originally. Will also try to identify any potential problems with pivot/locking pin/whatever. Agreed that detail is not easy to find. If you have already gone through this process I would appreciate any info you have acquired. best, rippy
 
#5 ·
I started in on the keel pin over the weekend and have a few photos to share. We took out a lot of soggy plywood from the center of the cabin to get a good look at the keel pin. In order to access the keel pin we had to remove fiberglass from around the pin...and this is what we found. Both sides have a wooden housing or "block" that is surface attached to the fiberglass. I do not know if this is original. The starboard side (photo) block is in two pieces but the port side is a single piece...next step???
 

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#6 ·
21 keel pivot

Great stuff! That 2 piece wooden block sure must have started out as 1. ;) My boat is surrounded by a couple feet of snow and covered by tarp right now. I have only looked at the interior a couple of times but I don't think the bolt or the area where the pin goes is hidden under any glass or plywood. Do you know what year your 21 is?
 
#7 ·
My cal is a '71. If anyone gets a chance to snap a couple of photos of your cal 21 keel pivot I would greatly appreciate it! Progress is going to be slow going for the next month but I will continue to post in hopes to get a bit of advice...

Rippy, thanks for the info!
 
#8 ·
Righto, we have the same boat I guess...at least when they were new! I am off to Mexico for February. When I get back I will investigate further. Hope the snow is about done by then. I am in Hudson valley of NY. Rod Johnson is the most knowlegable guy I have found on the Cal 21 story.
 
#12 ·
Dear sailnova,
There is no box around the keel pivot on my boat. I do get water in but it is via the hole in the cockpit. It is just a bit enough to be annoying. I don't have the wooden piece around the pivot either. You may have some cracks in that box. If you can raise the boat on the trailer. Drop the keel and inspect the inside of the housing. I sailed mine in 20 knots water almost coming in over the side. But no water inside. Oh, be sure never to drob the keel in the water the housing is not designed to withstand that impact. I will replace my worm driven winch with a strap winch like to put in on the trailer. Change the strap for synthetic rope. No hard cables. Good luck
 
#13 ·
Hey Bonito, Nice job with the pics! But I think I need a few words to assist in my quest...IMG_4902.JPG is a pic of the keel in the trunk. Exactly what I needed. But I can't quite make out what the hardware is. It looks like there is a triangular piece of steel coming off the bottom of the keel(to the left). I have a feeling that is the keel hook that no longer is on my boat. Can you tell if it is original, or something added by someone? It looks like a lot of turbulence that would be hanging down when the keel is extended.
Also there is some kind of metal bracket forward of the triangle. What on earth is that for? Hate to be a bother, but would like to launch my Cal pretty soon, and I will probably do it with the bolt attached cable the first time, but I would like to restore the boat to original design. Thanks for your pics and thanks for any words you might offer.
One last comment, I think I have located where a pin would be located to lock the keel down while sailing but it looks like there is a permanent structure in there now. I can't imagine how it could be pulled out and reinserted. I wish one of the knowledgeable builders of these boats would come forward and offer drawings of Cal21 details.
 
#14 ·
Keel trunk repairs

I wanted to post a quick update on my repairs...Here is a before and after picture of the keel, starboard side. We had to remove a lot of second attempt fiberglass from around the trunk. The plan from here is to add a few layers of fiberglass and build a perpendicular support for the trunk. In the processes we have also gutted the interior and sanded down the inside...learning as we go, more updates to follow!
 

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#16 ·
Rippy, you are correct in the placement of the pivot and locking pin. Here is a photo of the keel before we cleaned it up. The locking hole is on the left and the pivot hole is on the right. I have had the boat for less than a year and was never able to lock the keel into place. It might take a little bit of math and a few prayers when it comes to drilling a new hole for the locking pin...I will keep updating the forum as we make progress.
 

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#17 ·
Interesting, Maybe there is no real need to pin the keel down. Perhaps folks have been sailing it that way for years. Bonito has pics of sailing his boat. I wonder if he uses the locking pin? Rod Johnson or his dad could give us good info. Or that fellow who owns the Packers. The way info is spread out in different forums makes it difficult. I can never remember where I saw different things.
 
#18 ·
Rippy, if you take a look at the specs you will see that the keel sits at an angle so if you don't lock it into place the position of the keel will be in a less than ideal location. From the discussions that I have read, it seems critical to not allow the keel to swing too far forward due to potential damage to the hull.
 
#19 ·
I thought the keel pin was to keep it from moving toward the stern while underway, not to keep it from rotating forward or upward. I did read about not letting it just swing down uncontrolled for fear of it coming up through the trunk. That would not be cool! Rod Johnson has informed me that the keel will move slightly fore and aft if you don't secure it somehow once lowered. And that will cause wear on everything. So best to put the pin in or find some other way to secure it. Perhaps a keelplug that fits snug up against the back of the keel.
 
#20 ·
I thought I would make a quick post regarding progress, or lack there of...hoping to try to get the keel back in this weekend. Still a little hazy how we are going to do it. This is a photo of the keel trunk progress. We added several layers of fiberglass after sanding through the mess that was on there.
 

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#22 ·
Well, short story is that the keel is back in...it went a lot smoother than it could have. We used a 1 inch bolt as a new pin because the threads on the old one were stripped. I think this idea came from some photos we found online somewhere. We haven't done a leak test yet. The photos should explain the process to some degree...
 

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#23 ·
Rippy - still working on the locking pin. I think I might try to find a threaded brass rod based on some of the threads I read off the Cal 21 site. We had a session in applied math trying to determine where the locking pin hole should be drilled. Before re-fiberglassing there were large holes in this area so we didnt know what was right and fiberglassed it all in. We know that last summer we were sailing with the keel over extended and not locked! So we tried to determine the angle of the keel shaft and then only drilled out one side based on a sketch from the keel and based on the specs. When we do the first launch we will test how well we did on lining up the hole and probably end up a little wet trying to determine where the lead is horizontal.
 
#25 ·
I don't have my camera or I would take a pic of my pin/keel bolt placement, though it is heavily covered up with whatever so would still be hard to use to set your pin. I measured the distance from the bolt to the pin and it is 10.5 inches. The pin is about 5 inches from the front edge of the trunk. Hard to measure as I still have some plywood and stuff in that area. As I may have already said, I am going to try to launch and sail as is, hoping that nothing falls off!
 
#26 ·
I bought it last year and put it straight into the water and all went fine. It presented itself as a great opportunity to learn and I had good help to aid me along the way...of course when I bought it I was told that it didn't leak at all, haha. The true test is yet to come. Hopefully the leak is gone and the keel pivots inside the trunk! Those dimensions sound about right compared to our math as well. Thanks for the info. Looking forward to hear about your maiden voyage!
 
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