C 38, is/can it be a good ocean crosser - Page 2 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > Catalina
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  #11  
Old 01-23-2007
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
"We were experiencing water over the deck which was finding it's way inside through hatches, dorades, windows, mast member and deck fittings"


"It was difficult, if not impossible, for the bilge pump centered amidships to grab any of this water and pump it out as most of it tended to stay on the starboard side. In a vessel of this design and under these conditions what is really needed is separate port and starboard bilge pumps as there is no deep centered bilge directly above the keel area that would enable the centrally located bilge pump to remove the water."

"What wishful thinking! About two hours later the hatch was completely opened by the same jib sheet, only this time the latch assembly was broken, lying in pieces on the floor."

1+1+1+1+1= A LOT

"However well prepared they were in other areas, PANDA herself turned out to be not quite up to the challenge of blue water sailing"



ONCE AGAIN THE HIGH PROFESSIONALISM OF YOUR AMERICAN COAST GUARD GOD BLESS THEM...

""Hello" he said. "My name is Eric and I'm your rescue swimmer. Are you having a good day?" This immediately broke the tension as we all burst out laughing, with Eric energetically shaking each of our hands."

Last edited by Giulietta; 01-23-2007 at 06:32 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2007
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Camaraderie,
I am not a Catalina fan, defender or owner. I objected to sailingfool using this aborted sail to Hawaii in an apparently poorly prepared 14 year old Catalina 36 as an example of why Catalinas aren't suitable for ocean voyages. From my reading of the linked site the only issue attributable to Catalina was the failed steering gear. Granted this is a major issue but Catalina stated that it had notified owners that a retrofit fix was available the year the boat was built, yes in 1984! The analysis on the site identifies the cause of the failures -- maintenance or rather a lack of maintenance. The analysis also points out that at no time during the voyage were the conditions extreme. A reading of this analysis will lead most to the conclusion that the boat, while prepared well in the safety equipment department, was not in itself properly prepared for the voyage. Going to sea requires preparation, whatever hull you may be in.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2007
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k1vsk will become famous soon enough
Opinions aside, when the manufacturer says it isn't designed or intended for use in oceans, as my 6 year old says, DUHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Seldom is that sound more eloquent and appropriate than here
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2007
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Properlt Prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco
Camaraderie,
.... poorly prepared 14 year old Catalina 36 as an example of why Catalinas aren't suitable for ocean voyages. From my reading of the linked site the only issue attributable to Catalina was the failed steering gear. Granted this is a major issue but Catalina stated that it had notified owners that a retrofit fix was available the year the boat was built, yes in 1984! The analysis on the site identifies the cause of the failures -- maintenance or rather a lack of maintenance. The analysis also points out that at no time during the voyage were the conditions extreme. A reading of this analysis will lead most to the conclusion that the boat, while prepared well in the safety equipment department, was not in itself properly prepared for the voyage. Going to sea requires preparation, whatever hull you may be in.
Given the equipment that failed in a few days of at most moderate weather, you seem to assume that "preparation" somehow involves a mass replacing of OEM equipment not normally subject to replacement. For example, the head hatch that was ripped off by a sheet - just how would you have "prepared" the hatch?

The point is to "prepare" a boat like this for offshore use would fundamentally require rebuilding it from the keel up, that aint what most people think of as preparation or maintenance. You don't prepare the hatches, you replace them with equipment sturdy enought for offshore use, etc...

Last edited by sailingfool; 01-24-2007 at 12:40 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-24-2007
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Many thanks to the poster of the link. I read it last night and concluded that it was essentially a Captain and Crew failure, not the Catalina 36. The crew had virtually no offshore experience and the Captain did not prepare the boat for the forces that you would encounter offshore. Although the Catalina is basically a coastal cruiser it could be prepared for offshore use. See John Vigor's book on how to prepare a Catalina 27 for blue water cruising. We all would prefer to go off shore on a Shannon 43 or a Valiant 42, but you generally sail on the boat you have and can afford. Skills of the crew are 75% of it. The sea sickness should have been anticipated since this happens to almost everyone off shore. The Captain did make some good decisions, but he should have tested the boat for possible incursions of water into the cabin as well as the stresses on the steering mechanism prior to departure. Water should be kept on the outside of the boat.
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  #16  
Old 01-24-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool

The point is to "prepare" a boat like this for offshore use would fundamentally require rebuilding it from the keel up, that aint what most people think of as preparation or maintenance. You don't prepare the hatches, you replace them with equipment sturdy enought for offshore use, etc...
The hatch was leaking because a sheet caught under it. Part of watchkeeping is to see that everything's ok on deck. A lazy sheet will occasionally catch something and cause problems when tacking if not noticed. This seems to be what happened. Either that or the sail was flogging badly and the sheet caught under the hatch. In both case it's "operator error". The only structural problem encountered had to do with the steering and, if you read the analysis, you will see that the fix was available 14 years before the voyage was started.
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2007
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Interesting comments here. Have any of you sailed or been aboard or owned a Catalina 38?? Mine has been from San Francisco to Mexico - Hawaii - Seattle and back to SF. Several Catalina 38's have made the TransPac race. The boat and rig are so over-built compared to other Catalinas. The original design was by S&S and Catalina carried it forward to a balanced spade rudder, fin keel design that is quite sea worthy.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2007
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Cat38...The question is not whether the boat CAN make it...it is a question of how much luck do you need and is the boat built to withstand severe ocean conditions OVER TIME. I have owned 2 Catalinas (22 & 27) and sailed on a 42 and I am a FAN of the boats and the company but would not CHOOSE one if I were planning an ocean voyage. I have not sailed a 38 but find it hard to believe that Catalina would produce a boat with much greater scantlings than the rest of their line and not promote it differently. I have always liked the lines of the 38 and believe that the more traditional design is better than the more spacious models we now have but stilll believe the boat is more suited to coastal than ocean passage-making.
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2007
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Cat38skip,

Don't confuse the board with facts! Just because you have done it in your C38, and many of them do cross oceans, it is still a Catalina and they are denigrated for off shore work on this board fairly regularly. Hell, there are people here, and Cam is NOT one of them, that think a Catalina will sink if you let go of the dock lines. Some of those same people think that a Bene is comparable to a Hylas. Go figure!

Simon, to you the question is: I remember that you want to buy a boat here and take it home. What is your ultimate use of the boat? Living on it and crossing oceans or coastal work?

The C38 IS the most over built boat that Catalina makes. Much of that is that it was a S&S design and Frank Butler does not make many changes in his production runs. Certainly the early boats that you are describing are very overbuilt.They have sold a lot and when they make a change things slow down. $$$$$$$$ out the window. It will take quite some time to make the 387 production as efficient.

The boat will cross oceans as Cat38skip says. If you want to get it home you can. However, if your intent for the boat is to keep crossing oceans, that is not what the boat was designed for. They are designed as coastal cruisers that can go farther. Hell, people have crossed oceans in rowboats and lived. It all goes to conditions and seamanship.

State your purpose for the boat very clearly. The tendency of the board is to assume that you are going to go around the world non stop even if you will never get 10 miles outside of Baltimore. An older C38 can be a great boat, or a terrible boat, dependent on its care and your intentions.
Good luck in whatever you decide.

If I am not mistaken, are you from OZ? I was just reading some posts on the Cruisers Forum and one of the members is looking for prices to sail or ship a mid 40's boat from the East Coast of the US to OZ. The number keeps coming up somewhere between $20,000 and $40,000 US. That adds a significant % to an older C38 unless you are doing the trip yourself. A long trip home?
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  #20  
Old 06-23-2007
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Cat 38

I have an "83" Cat 38 ,bought in Oct of 06. My plan is to take it to Hawaii. Yet will not be doing it until at least three things take place.

One is to crew aboard someone else's boat to Hawaii, that has done the trip before and learn as much as I can and what are all the possibilities that may be encountered with boat and crew.

Two, is go through every part of the boat, every fitting, hardware, mechanical, rigging, motor..etc...and refit and upgrade approprietly

Three is do a couple of shakedowns such as trips to Ensanada, or the Baja Ha Ha....
..... and if I still have any money left, do the cruise. The Cat 38 is not quite like the other Cats, yet it will still need all the TLC.
Brick Sh.t houses are strong but still need to be occasioanlly remortered...
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