C36 Dual Anchor Set Up

[MarkWood]

My wife and I are cruising our C36 to the Bahamas in the Fall, and considering converting to a dual anchor set up. Wondering if anyone can offer their experience related to this.

We are now using a now using a Fortress 16, with 20' of chain and the rest rope. Works fine for the Chesapeake Bay, and easy to handle. But for the Bahamas, we are thinking of ending up with the Fortress/rope road combo as a stern anchor, and a CQR and Delta off the bow with all chain rode on both. Any thought?

Thanks,

Mark Wood

[camaraderie]

Mark...we used our delta sucessfully in the Bahamas on an all chain rode for 5 winters in the Bahamas. I have a CQR also on a combination chain/nylon rode as I've found the CQR doesn't stay set as well without the extra stretch provided by the nylon in tough conditions. Given that most of the anchorages in the Bahamas will be in less than 20 ft. (usually 6-10 ft.) you can probably do 50ft of chain + nylon for your secondary anchor and not run into any coral abrasion issues on the rode. Plus two all chain rodes in the bow of a CS36 is gonna be a lot of unnecessary weight.
If I had to do it again...I would go for a Spade/Rocna or Manson as my secondary rather than the CQR but if you read the anchoring threads here you'll find a considerable diversity of opinion.
Assuming you will have a windlass...my main advice would be to make your primary anchor well oversized so that you don't need to worry and so the need to put out a second will only be when extremely poor conditions are predicted or when a Bahamian moor is required due to strong current/tidal flow.

[MarkWood]

Camaraderie... Thanks very much for your input. I have no first hand experience with the CQR, but have a delta as my back up currently. Your thoughts on the weight of all chain on both anchors certainly does ring true.

In your opinion, how badly do you think a permanently set up dual anchor system is needed for bahamas cruising? If I set up all chain on an well oversized delta as my primary on the windlass, and kept my fortress on 50' of chain w/nylon rode, and another delta on 20' of chain/nylon rode as back up's in a locker, would it be a reasonable set up for the bahamas?

Thanks,
Mark

[camaraderie]

Mark...on our other boat...upgrading to a dual anchor platform was a custom job and cost almost 2K. Looking back, I would say you can get away without it for the Bahamas IF you have a good way to secure that second delta once launched without incurring chafe on the bow. As a primary in this case I would get at LEAST a Delta #45. I would also get around 40' of chain for the secondary.
To deploy...you will need to drop your secondary FIRST....and set....then move on the the primary.

We RARELY used our dual set-up. Once when we were dragging in bad holding ground...and other times when we were in the very few high current/tidal reversing spots. So ....I think your thoughts make sense for this area.

[Cruisingdad]

I second Cam's thoughts on the anchors and here is a side option:

Yes on the Delta. Best anchor we have had. I would keep a Fortress (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...allpartial/0/0) as a storm (because of how it comes apart and can stowe). Outside of that, all chain. The only thing we use a rope rode for is lunch hook or light conditions. As far as the weigth, I find most boats are under-weighted in the bow I wonder if Cam agrees??). Most of the weight seems to be in the stern and I have seen many boats where the stern sits noticeably lower than the bow. This is not neccessarily a bad thing, but I would be suprised if the extra weight will compromsie that much.

As far as the CQR: No. A piece of junk. Keep it for a stern anhor or something. I, like Cam, have had poor experiences with it.

As far as the Rocna, etc... I have no first hand experience.

Instead of the second roller, use a large 5 gallon bucket in the chain locker. On a boat that size, you should be able to get most of the rode in there, if not all of it. You can use the rest of the locker for your primary. This is the poor-man's version of a divided locker. We have a second roller, but when we make a passage we will often throw the hooks down below in the locker or bilge anyways and lash them. You don't want an anchor coming off the roller offshore.

Everyone has their prefernces on anchor and locker, etc. You are only getting mine with real life exposure. And by the way, the only anchor on my boat that is sized to the chart is a CQR that came with the boat. I would have never bought it (as it is stainless too????#$!@!). Some people have more money than sense. Everything is oversized at least one to two sizes. But, I do a have a windless. I would not want to tote that thing up by hand, especially with all chain.

Does that answer your questions? Take care.

- CD

[Maine Sail]

If you really want one that bad I'll sell you my old one but I still advise a better anchor. There are far better anchors out there now days than the Bruce or the CQR. I would recommend seriously looking at a Manson Supreme, Rocna or a Steel Spade (not the aluminum verison I have one and it sucks compared to the steel version I also have). I've owned just about every anchor made and still own them. My CQR never even gets dusted off any more and my Bruce is on loan to a buddy who never anchors. The Delta is not a bad anchor but also nowhere as good as either a Rocna, Spade or Manson Supreme. I anchor out a lot and my Manson Supreme is now my primary anchor. I actually test my anchors and put them through the paces and compare them to each other. I also keep an anchor log book with scope, wind, depth, bottom type and anchor used.

Instead of spending money on a custom made dual platform buy a primary anchor like a Rocna or a Manson Supreme then add a Steel Spade as a back up. The Spade comes apart and can be stowed very easily. You're on the right track using the Fortress as a dedicated stern anchor it's what I also use. A Fortress holds on like a pit bull but sucks at re-setting so it's best suited as a dedicated, directional pull anchor like a stern anchor. It's nice and light so you can row it out in the dink to set it too..

Below is a video of my Manson Supreme in a very hard, intertidal zone showing off how well it penetrates hard bottom types. I drive my truck on this intertidal zone to launch my brothers Whaler! When I tested My CQR here it would not even bite even after four tries. I have no affiliation to Manson or any other manufacturer these tests were done for my own piece of mind and to get a better understaning of how an anchor works on the bottom.. In the picture below you can see why the Manson sets and holds so well. The cross section of this anchor is shapened like an arrow head. In my 37 years of boating I've NEVER had an anchor set so definitively and abruptly as the Manson Supreme or hold as well!

http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?use...3&ctime=160000

[MarkWood]

Thanks everyone for your posts. I've narrowed down my options considerably.

-Mark

[Craig Smith]

Etc...

Originally Posted by MarkWood

My wife and I are cruising our C36 to the Bahamas in the Fall, and considering converting to a dual anchor set up. Wondering if anyone can offer their experience related to this.

We are now using a now using a Fortress 16, with 20' of chain and the rest rope. Works fine for the Chesapeake Bay, and easy to handle. But for the Bahamas, we are thinking of ending up with the Fortress/rope road combo as a stern anchor, and a CQR and Delta off the bow with all chain rode on both. Any thought?

Why do you want a dual anchor set-up on the bow? People do have their preferences for this, but it comes down to intended application, and most of the time it is the case that a single anchor is a much more sensible option. You can have a larger more effective anchor and less total weight on the bow. Store spares down below.

For the stern anchor, similar logic should apply to its selection as to the primary. Unless you need to be able to row it out, don't go with an aluminium anchor, which is just expensive and light of weight for no reason - in fact for your C36, you're only talking about a 20-30lb steel anchor for the stern anyway, which should be easily manageable by hand.

Fortresses are very specialist, not especially reliable at setting, and really only effective for straight-line pulls.

The Delta is good but the CQR to be avoided, particularly in the Bahamas. Take note of Acoustic's post above, although realize he is using a rather cheap copy of the Rocna and the original is always better...

Don't go with all rope for the stern, you should use fairly balanced rodes so the boat will lie more happily between the two anchors.

[MarkWood]

Craig,

Thanks for your input. What size anchor would you recommend for a primary? My windlass will handle 5/16 chain, and I was planning on using 200'.

Mark

[Craig Smith]

What's your boat's loaded displacement Mark, 5-6T? We'd recommend the 15 (33lbs).

Our sizing is conservative - you don't need to do the normal "one size up from manufacturers' recommendations" thing. We work the sizing out for 50 knot windspeeds and using real life testing data.

Your chain sounds ideal. 200' is not especially necessary, especially in the shallow Bahamas. You could get away with less if you wanted to save weight. Otherwise the more the better.