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  #41  
Old 12-19-2013
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I very much appreciate all the input I have gotten from everyone here. It has been very helpful. After all this - here is where I am at. I think I should either go forward with the TMM booking accepting the captain for the day or two, or maybe try a 36 with Sunsail.

My last concerns are - what if the captain feels that I am not good enough, or what if my skills just really aren't up to par. I don't feel that would happen, but it's always possible. If I add the captain for the week, I am the into the cost for a normal crewed charter, but without all the luxury that goes with that high price tag - ie. Top quality chef, food, service, etc.

I don't think this would be the case, but I am not a risk taker. I methodically approach problems. If I was deemed inadequate there would not only be the monetary consequence but also I would feel like a failure after working so hard towards a goal. Maybe a 36 would lower the risk factor?

As someone said here, yes I did all the training and have gone step by step, but as he said I have yet to be fully alone and on my own. But then again, at one point or another that has to happen.
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  #42  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Experience required to bareboat?

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Originally Posted by CaribDream View Post
Sure. I like the idea of a smaller company, better or more individualized service (could be debated either way I suppose). I also like that they offered better prices than the other options I found (40 foot for the same price or less than others 36 foot), while offering free wi-fi which runs about $300ish per week with other companies. On the particular boat we chose, I liked the dual helm and shallow draft. I also prefer to have a dedicated chart plotter. I don't want to use an iPad for a plotter as I just don't wanna worry about it flying around the cockpit by accident.

TMM also offers a 10% return customer discount which is very attractive. I wish they had a 36... Shorter than 36 looks a little too claustrophobic for our taste and lack the lounging room in the cockpit that we have become accustomed to.
That's exactly why we chartered from TMM a couple of years ago (I think we took Wombat, a Jeanneau 40.3). My experience at the time was really no different than yours, but we had owned a J24 for a couple of years and I crewed on some of the bigger J boats here in Charleston. We had hooked up with a couple (and their 14 yr old son) who had just completed ASA 101, nothing else, and they chartered one of TMM's 36 foot Jeanneau's (which the owner has moved since then) and all of us went out for a 2 hour check-ride the day before we left for our 10-day charter. Realizing the other couple had little experience, my wife decided to ride over with them to our first anchorage (leeward side of Peter Island across the channel) and we're glad she did, as she essentially went through all of ASA 101 with them- turns out their son remembered more about sailing basics than his parents... Even though both boats got back without a scratch (luckily), I can see why they've changed their tune. We saw all sorts of nutty things happening out there on the bigger catamarans from the other charter companies. They are a simple company, and I liked the smaller down-home feel of their crew. I was surprised when I asked the captain who checked us out if we could sail to Anegada, and he said "sure"!

I thought a captain was only $100/day, but maybe their prices have gone up since then. It's possible that during the check ride, you may be able to demonstrate enough of a knowledge-base that they'll wave that requirement... or lessen it to one day.
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  #43  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Experience required to bareboat?

Carib- I'd probably stick with TMM. They are (or at least they were) a very low key operation, and I think they can be swayed to trust you. All dependent on the check ride. The Jeanneau's handle fairly easily- they back up dependably (little prop walk) as they are just a spade rudder with fin keel, and well-powered so maneuvering is fairly easy. Your power boat experience should come in handy as their dock space is fairly tight. The sailing is a cinch there... all visual.
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  #44  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunbird:1232354
Carib- I'd probably stick with TMM. They are (or at least they were) a very low key operation, and I think they can be swayed to trust you. All dependent on the check ride. The Jeanneau's handle fairly easily- they back up dependably (little prop walk) as they are just a spade rudder with fin keel, and well-powered so maneuvering is fairly easy. Your power boat experience should come in handy as their dock space is fairly tight. The sailing is a cinch there... all visual.
Thanks. I made my decision. We all have to start somewhere. Onward and upward.
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  #45  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Experience required to bareboat?

CaribDream - the following is not to denigrate your experience level at all. Frankly I value judgment over experience.

Still, this (not the bikini)
is part of what a charter operator has to worry about. *grin*
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  #46  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious:1232914
CaribDream - the following is not to denigrate your experience level at all. Frankly I value judgment over experience.

Still, this (not the bikini) "Ode to the Credit Card Captains", Anegada, British Virgin Islands, Caribbean - YouTube is part of what a charter operator has to worry about. *grin*
No offense taken at all. I literally have nightmares about that video. I have seen that video seemingly hundreds of times and I still ask why why why anyone would go into a crowded mooring field with sails up etc. Especially in Anegada. Yikes. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm sure I wouldn't do that.
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  #47  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Experience required to bareboat?

An expert in no more or less "a drip under pressure!"
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  #48  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Experience required to bareboat?

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
There was a Safety of Life at Sea report on recreational boats published some years ago that captured hundreds of real incidents and what went wrong. Time after time in the flurry of events, starting the engine resulted in wrapping a line around the prop. Now there is crew in the water "over there" and a stuck boat. It's easy to say "make sure all lines are clear" but the reality is that doesn't happen. Sailing back to the MOB should be the first course of action.
I have no reason to question the report you recall. I am confused however. If you are on a sailboat, you start the engine and wrap the dinghy painter, aren't you still on a sailboat? Why are you stuck? You still have sails and a rudder and a dinghy that can be cut free which in our fleet, is a very fast rescue vessel.

I perhaps didn't make my point well late last night when I posted. Referring back to my post: If what you are doing is not working, try something else. First putting the boat in irons and then ending up hove to is not an indication of sailing skill with a MOB +200yds behind the boat. If you are a skilled sailor with a good crew on the boat you find yourself on, sail back. But doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of something. As I clearly stated he did try to sail back to the MOB first and did a very poor job of it. Can we agree that it does come down to skills? If you can't sail well enough to get back to a MOB in a reasonable amount of time but are very good at handling a boat under power, why not fire up the main engine(s)? On charter catamarans, that would seem even more obvious. In our fleet of cats all dinghies are in davits, no lines are in the water. I end up doing a fair number of unplanned MOBs every month with crew I've only met an hour or two prior. Lost hats, flip flops and fenders (which are really hard to grab) fall overboard all the time. Some I sail to. Some I motor to. Some I use a combination of both. One must be very fast to get most hats before they sink! I think people should do whatever they need to do to get to a person in the water and safely retrieve them as fast as possible, period, no rules, just get it done. If that means turning all the sheets loose and flogging the sails while motoring back, do it!

When I am skipper during my safety briefing I give a standing order to all on board. That is, "No one is allowed into the water until the boat is moored or anchored, the engine(s) are off and you have asked me for permission". That directive alone should be enough to prevent a MOB and the rest of this becomes fodder for endless debate. What do you think the best anchor is for a MOB?

Last edited by FarCry; 12-19-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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  #49  
Old 12-20-2013
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Re: Experience required to bareboat?

Give Ed Hamilton a call. They are charter brokers and know every operation on the island. They can give you the ups and downs and assess each for you to be sure you aren't hassled for you experience level. They are the same cost as going direct, sometime even a bit lower. They must get a vig from the charter company. We used them last we went.

Tortola, British Virgin Islands  Virgin Islands Yacht Charter Charters Virgin Islands Sailing Charter Boat Charters

They also suggested Horizon Charters and we were very pleased with them. Boats in good repair (although every charter has something break) and folks were very helpful. I also highly preferred sailing out of Nanny Cay over Road Town.

Horizon Yacht Charters - BVI Sailing Vacations
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Old 12-20-2013
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Re: Experience required to bareboat?

CaribDream, Like you said, you have to start somewhere. I think you understand all the risks involved with a bigger boat. Just from your answers i feel confident that you have a head on your shoulders.
Just remember; bigger boats can maim or kill easier. They are much heavier than a 18' daysailor. Tell people during your safety brief about rigging loads (lost fingers), docking maneuvers (pinched hands and legs trying to fend off) and getting hit by the boat during a MOB (hull slamming in rough seas). Amongst other things. With bigger comes more respect with increased risks involved. Don't assign tasks to individuals unless you are sure they can handle them.

Have Fun!
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