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Tipping a skipper on a bareboat charter

37K views 305 replies 34 participants last post by  Brown 123 
#1 ·
Hi, I apologize in advance if this topic has already been beaten to death. I am planning two charters in the BVIs this spring. Both are a week in length, separated by a week at a resort. My goal long term, is to be able to bareboat charter without a skipper., To that end, as a newcomer to the sailing world, I have taken the US Sailing courses up to and including 104 for bareboat cruising. I've also crewed on a J33 in a beer can racing series over the summer.
We will be doing all the provisioning and all the cooking. I've already planned an itinerary for both weeks, however they are more just guidelines to give us the flexibility if circumstances dictate we need to alter course as it were.
By and large, I feel pretty comfortable skippering the boat (both are 42' cats) but I'm not sure the charter company's will see it that way. So we have tentatively agreed to have a skipper. I am hoping (and have indicated to the charter company) that i would like to do as much hands on sailing as possible. The charter is as much for me to go sailing, as it is to visit Willy T's or the Soggy Dollar. All 4 of us on the boat have sailing experience, however I will be the only one with the bareboat certification, and none of us currently own boats or have previously chartered.

So my questions are:
A. What's the chances they will let me sail without a skipper, and
B. If we are basically doing everything, but under the eye of a skipper, plus providing all his meals etc, is a 15-20% of the charter fee still considered appropriate? I have no problem tipping the skipper 20% of his skipper fee, but 15 to 20% if the charter fee seems excessive - substantially more that the skipper fee alone.

Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
Yes, they will let you do whatever you are capable and willing to do. Most likely give you some good feedback, ideas, perspective, etc.

No, you can't discount their gratuity, as they are trying to make a living. That would make you a bad luck of the draw, if they could have otherwise gone with a client that didn't want to do as much you.
 
#3 ·
Bareboat charters don't have a captain. (There's a difference between a captain and a skipper.)

That's one of the reasons it's called a "bareboat" charter.
 
#4 ·
If you know how to sail, but just don't have experience on a boat of that size, or are going from a mono to a cat, the charter company may not require the captain stay for the whole trip. The Captain can typically use their discretion, but may be comfortable leaving you on your own after a day or two. Then you only tip for the amount of time they were aboard, not the entire charter.

Who did you use to charter? Some are more or less picky.
 
#9 ·
First issue: US Sailing does not teach 101, 103 or 104. Those are ASA terms, and not knowing this indicates that there are probably other gaps...

The skipper fee charged to the client does not all go to the skipper. It goes to the charter company, and they take a cut.

The appropriate term is "gratuity," because it is an expression of your grattitude to the skipper. If you would say "thank you" to the skipper, you should provide the skipper with a gratuity for the time that s/he spends with you.
 
#12 ·
In certain jobs, tipping seems to be beneficial. In others, it just seems wrong. Who would want to be expected to tip a surgeon if everything went ok?

I spent 6 or 7 years bartending to pay for college and get on my feet afterwards. I understand the concept and tip well for EXCEPTIONAL service. I'll tip 10% for 'You did your job' service, and less for crappy service.
 
#16 · (Edited)
$50 per day would be huge percentage of just the skipper fee, but a low percentage of the entire boat cost. I've only paid a skipper once and the tip amounted to about $100 per day. One guy. It would probably be okay with me to expect that two crew split a gratuity based upon the total boat cost, but they would have, therefore, split the duty.

For those that hate gratuities, there is no reconciling the difference of opinion. I support the tipping/gratuity model, when there is a personal and variable service level. I fully support the idea that folks that work harder and do a better job get paid more. Some argue that tips gravitate to a median for all, which argues they could be built in a standard cost. But I disagree. Those that work harder, wait on more tables, work faster and smarter will make more money in a gratuity model. It should be that way. A flat hourly wage reduces productivity. That's my opinion, you may disagree.

I tip the dock hands that run to help me land the boat in a relatively difficult slip. They are not required to drop their broom and come over. Its an "as available" service. The tip inspires they do both, otherwise, why bother?

I do not tip hotel cleaning staff. I never interact with them. The service is absolutely standard, no extra effort creates more value to the consumer. Pay them properly in the first place.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Well, I am a professional Captain and I take clients out on multi-day trips. I refuse to work for $150-$200/day with the possibility of getting a tip. I understand that appears to be the going rates in the BVIs. I have trained long and hard to get where I am today. I also continue to train and acquire new skill sets. When I am working I am working 24 hours a day. So I make sure I get the minimum fees I want or I don't do the job--that simple. If your life is not worth paying your Captain properly I say go sail the boat yourself.

Most Captains I know who do work for the low day rates say they usually get 10%-15% of the total charter fee.

Do you really want your Captain to be paid minimally? What kind of professional Captain do you think you will get?
 
#18 ·
I like the way you take your stand for the big money and then advocate for the high tips all in one post.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I differentiate pay rates with and without tips as noted in my prior post. I provide my rates up front without the expectation of receiving a tip. The client has the choice to either hire me or not hire me. I am perfectly happy with the arrangement and so are the people who hire me. More often than not I receive what I consider to be a substantial tip.
 
#19 ·
I will tip a waiter, waitress, barman, steward, why not the cook.
Why would you tip the captain? I wouldn't.
I used to teach sailing and take people out for a charter as a skipper. I never expected to be tipped.
The BVI might be different to where I operated. Certainly would only see it as a percentage of the fee paid to have a skipper.

Even so If I pay a company for a service I expect it to be provided. So I would not be chartering from those operations.
 
#21 ·
Around here, a captain will run you between $250-$450 per day. Depends on degree of difficulty.

In these charter operations, they charge ~$150/day and keep some of it. Therefore, the professional is expecting to be tipped. One can like or not like the system, but that's the way it is. Think of it as paying the proper rate, when tipping the skipper, but having the option to stiff them, if you think they did a poor job.
 
#22 ·
I don't do charters although on delivery some crew are more like passengers than I would prefer. I don't really know how much overlap there is between delivery work and charter work. I charge what I expect to earn and don't expect a tip. Of course there is no charter company between me and my customer and that would surely change the dynamic.

My customers will sometimes take me and the crew to dinner if they meet the boat after a delivery. I don't expect it. I appreciate it greatly. I've been tipped once in a while. Usually I try to spread that love around to my crew. Usually spread out it isn't so much so I buy momentos of the trip as gifts. After a couple of weeks you know people well enough to find appropriate things.
 
#23 ·
Interesting comments... I deliver boats, do briefings and check out charter guests and do a few charters a year, none of which are my primary source of income. After being in the business for about 8 years I see some trends based on the residence of the charter guests. There are some societies where tipping isn't common like it is in the US and I can appreciate that and have no expectations of a gratuity. My theory is to do my absolute best at all times and not base my success on others generosity.

At times I've been given surprisingly large gratuities when I feel the customer didn't get much value for my time. An example that springs to mind is the charter guest that had zero catamaran experience and wanted a day to get familiar with the vessel and the local waters. There was less than 5kts of wind for the first hour and then I saw a nasty black clouded front coming our way. Even though we were motor sailing I showed the customer what I saw coming and why we would just drop the sails and see what it brought. The storm didn't bring much wind but torrential rain dropping visibility to just past the bow. I had seen some ferry traffic coming our way at 25kts and decided to motor up close to a small Island to "hide" from any foolish operators still running at full throttle. Our wait, while holding position with engines, lasted for over an hour. Wit some visibility was restored I reviewed some other pieces of boat specific info before being dropped on shore to ferry back home. I told the customer that I felt bad that I was only able to really give them about 3 hours of usable instruction because of the weather. I was expecting the charter guest, an apparently semi-famous DC trial attorney, to ask for a refund and I would've waived some of my fee through the charter company if he pressed at all. Instead he asked "What's the biggest tip for a day you've ever received?". I don't recall my reply but he started peeling off $100 bills at an incredible rate and told me to say stop when I had enough!!! I immediately told him to stop and tried to return the money but he would have none of it. He told me he learned more about weather, boat handling and safety strategy in our short day then he had in years on the water and was very grateful.

I did a 12 day trip with some foreigners, arranged rendezvous dives, made dinner reservations and generally worked my butt off the entire time. They told me it was the best trip of their life and thanked me over and over again while leaving me almost enough money to have a nice meal. It's not their culture and I'm fine with that. I don't run around on boats to get rich, I enjoy it (most times)...
 
#25 ·
My biggest issue with tipping isn't the concept, it's the assumption of common knowledge. If tipping is expected, then I'd better be told upfront that it's expected, or else I'm not going to know that I'm "supposed" to tip (and I'm not going to do it). Hardly anywhere bothers to make this clear, however. Anyone who grew up in the U.S. knows about tipping waitstaff at a restaurant because it's so common, but chartering or hired skippering isn't exactly something that most of the country grows up around. If I didn't know any better, I would treat it the same way I treat a plumber or an accountant or an attorney or a doctor-they tell me how much it costs, and I pay them that amount.

If hired skippering wants to operate on a different price model, that's fine and I have no problem with it. Some places actually do this, but rarely do they make it as clear as it should be (Blue Water Sailing School, for example, at least has a reference to tipping-it's buried in their FAQ, and is only obliquely referenced on their pricing pages, but it's at least somewhere, so a person like me who is actually trying to find out about them in a non-lazy fashion would know in advance that it's part of the expectation. Other places, however (like Black Rock Sailing School in Boston, to pick one at random on the Googles), either make no mention of it at all or have it so deeply buried that I can't find it. So if I were looking to take a course at Black Rock, I have no idea if a gratuity is expected to be part of that transaction-and I wouldn't provide one, as a result (unless it was so great that I felt they deserved someone on top of the agreed upon price on the basis of sheer outstandingness).
 
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#78 · (Edited)
My biggest issue with tipping isn't the concept, it's the assumption of common knowledge. If tipping is expected, then I'd better be told upfront that it's expected, or else I'm not going to know that I'm "supposed" to tip (and I'm not going to do it). Hardly anywhere bothers to make this clear, however. Anyone who grew up in the U.S. knows about tipping waitstaff at a restaurant because it's so common, but chartering or hired skippering isn't exactly something that most of the country grows up around. If I didn't know any better, I would treat it the same way I treat a plumber or an accountant or an attorney or a doctor?they tell me how much it costs, and I pay them that amount.
That exactly describes my experience. We are not wealthy people and planned our first charter, which may well be a once-in-a-lifetime experience for us.

We did a five day Cruise and Learn vacation that was the equivalent of ASA 101, 103 & 104. The invoice broke down each cost such as the basic five day boat lease, bed linen rentals, a fee for early boarding the night before, and $800 for the instructor.

I told the booking agent up front that I was a complete newbie and had never done any boat charter before . The booking agent spent a great deal of time on the phone with me explaining everything since this was our first time doing anything like this. She did an excellent job of treating me like we were new and dear friends.

I am well accustomed to tipping culture in the US with respect to restaurant wait staff, hotel maids and bellmen, and airport skycaps. We had an embarrassing moment when we went out to dinner with our sailing instructor for a pre-sail dinner. When the check arrived and she didn't offer any money or ask for separate checks we realized that we were probably expected to pay for meals. This had not occurred to us.

The next morning, I called the booking office before we sailed and asked my booking agent friend about the custom. She confirmed that it was customary that a customer pay for all the meals for the instructor. It would have been nice if she had also told me that generally they receive a tip as well, because they do not receive but a portion of the $800 skipper fee.

We had a great time and felt like we connected with our instructor. Now I feel really bad because I understand why our parting seemed a little uncomfortable. I wish someone had clued me in. I'm not a cheap person and I do believe in compensating people for good work. It was a very expensive trip for us and there were many unexpected costs. I was working hard to keep the cost of our trip from going too far beyond our budget. I feel bad now knowing that we came across as stingy people.
 
#27 ·
One way to think about tipping - regardless of the type of service - is to determine how much you would be willing to pay for that service if the payment structure was flat fee, absolutely no gratuity accepted. Let's say that you are willing to pay $500 per day for a captain. If the charter company is brokering a captain at $400 per day, then tip the captain $100 per day. OTH, If you are willing to spend only $400 for a captain, the tip will be zero. Let the captains and the brokers work out the free-market pricing splits amongst themselves.
 
#28 ·
Exactly. Licensed Captains working in the business are professional. They are not weekend warriors. As I said in an earlier post, some Captains will work for $200.00 day and take the risk of not getting a tip, some Captains won't take the risk. Best option for the consumer is to find the right Captain that works for you. Remember every business transaction has to be a "win-win." Both the consumer and service provider must be happy with the arrangements; It should never be a "win-lose" scenario.
 
#30 · (Edited)
No, I said in the post from which you excerpted
Don't misunderstand me; I do this job because I love sailing, and I enjoy meeting and sailing with new people. I also love teaching people how to do something that they have never done before. I don't, however, do it because it will allow me to retire in comfort, because it won't.
Were you unable to comprehend this?

The pay is modest, and some of the people that I have worked for are cheap... I suppose that I have the option of simply driving the boat, and keeping them off the rocks. If I were to only do this, I would not expect a gratuity.

Someone that will charter a boat, either request or be required to use the service of a captain in order to enjoy their vacation, and then stiff the captain or crew should not be able to charter. There are a couple of clients that I have had, that I will refuse to captain for again. Most clients, however, have been great.
 
#34 ·
No, I said in the post from which you excerpted Were you unable to comprehend this?
I did read your whole post, which is why I observed that maybe you would be happier in a different career and only sailing recreationally with friends of your choice. You used two giant paragraphs to describe everything you dislike about being a charter captain (it was a lengthy list of complaints) and then tagged on briefly at the end that you do the job because you love sailing. It seemed like a fair observation that I made.
 
#32 ·
@Yamsailor; I've noticed in several threads that there has been a troll infestation on SailNet lately... That, and I'm getting old and cranky...
 
#33 ·
For some reason there seems to be a prevailing opinion that licensed captains (in my case I have a Masters License) are necessarily no better trained than a recreational boater. Interesting given the average recreational boater spends less than 10 days/year out on the water. I spend on average 75 days out on the water and I teach classroom during the winter.
 
#35 ·
To the OP:

Use the time with a Captain to your advantage. Use him to learn as much as you can. Demonstrate to him your ability to handle the boat on your own and hopefully he can recommend you be able to bareboat the second week of sailing. Tip him for his work, tip him well if he provides good service and helps your sailing skills along.


To those looking for reasons to stiff your servers, porters and captains shame on you. Some waiters are making $2/hr and Captains are making less than $150/day, a tip is part of their income. Like it or not tipping is part of the american culture and the quality of the service is reflected in this. If you are demanding as a group or the service you receive is excellent tip the crew well. If you can't afford the service, sail your own boat, park your own car and cook your own food.
 
#36 · (Edited)
If a Captain thinks that his service is worth more than $150/day then she/he should charge the client more than $150/day. How much the agent/charter company/broker charges to make the captain-client connection is a cost of doing the captain's business and should be negotiated by the captain and the agent. As a client, I care only about how much I pay vs. the value of the service; I don't give a rat's ass about how it gets divvied up after it leaves my hands.

I have no problem paying a gratuity when the value of the service exceeded the price of the service.

I do have a problem with being quoted a price and then expected to pay more so that the service person can make a decent living. This goes for waiters, captains, and everybody else. I agree with Yamsailor: people who are professionals should charge a rate that is commensurate to their abilities. They should not have to depend on tips. So, professionals - set a fair price for your service and don't take jobs that depend on tips; customers - stop tipping for service that is not exceptional. The free market will work it out.
 
#40 · (Edited)
The OP originally asked about how much you would tip. on a "bareboat" charter. A Skipper who he may wish to have for a f days up to a week if required.

So presumably the boat is paid for along with food and booze moorage by the charterers o would be doing their own cooking cleaning and fetching and pouring of drinks.
So a extra hand to run boat and give some instruction for a few days on a 40ft boat. I have no clue what the going rate is for this service. So depends. Tip given the description of service required I cant see the tip being based on anything but the extra cost for the charged for service. What that is? Depends where you are from.

For me wouldn't expect a tip, or expect to be expected to tip. If we went ashore I'd by him his beer and dinner.

Of course I am from Scotland and lived and work with Geordies. Our idea of tip.

"Don't fry bacon in the nude". :smile

You go on holiday on a nice big fancy crewed charter yacht expecting to be waited on, catered for hand and foot by a crew of 1 or lots.
Its a completely different expectation.

Even as a Scotsman I'd pony up a tip of a least a few shillings. Without mentioning bacon. :smile

I cant see why you would suggest one Skipper is more "professional" than the other so they should be tipped.

Dollar figures have been own out. As to going rate for Skippers.
I suppose it depends who what and where?

So what is a fair rate for a Skipper? For a day on a 40ft boat? what up to 6 pax?.

By "fair" I mean all inclusive. For pay and Just to run boat and instruct.

What would you do it for?
 
#46 ·
In six decades, I've never seen a picket line at a marina.

There's nothing there to picket. You're confused about who puts picket lines up, where they put them, and why.
 
#50 ·
I am well aware in the silliness of my picket line statement.

I used it to demonstrate the difficulties of the individual charter captain's plight against the large brokerages that are only willing to pay minimum wage. Eventually the market may right itself but it could take years, in the meantime it will be hard to survive on sub-$150/day on the trips when clients that don't tip because "It's not my fault the company screws it's employees."
 
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