Charter versus Share/partnership

[lannig]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Yes, but if your off on a trip to Central America, exactly how is a "share owner" supposed to get to use the boat...when he/she may have no interest in sailing in that part of the world.

Another possible way to finance the restoration of the boat is to setup a corporation for doing so, and hold fund-raisers and write grants. This is probably a better approach IMHO, as there will be no demands upon the boat from the "share owners". Given the age and construction of the boat, it may also be possible to setup a relationship with a local nautical or sailing museum.

You raised some interesting points there
We need to be in complete agreement between shareholders on the navigation program, the perfect solution is if they know each other and want to do the same thing
Financing the restoration through a corporation is an interesting idea but I am not a US citizen or resident to start with,then the boat is actually british registred
But I would like very much to know more about this !
Can you give me more details ??
You can email me or PM me if you want .
Thanks a lot !

[sailingdog]

Last I checked, you do not need to be a US citizen to start a corporation in the United States. Even if the boat is registered under the Red Ensign, a local maritime museum may find it of interest, especially if the boat has any significant historical value.

[lannig]

Thanks Sailingdog, can you find me more details of how to do that ??
That will be great !

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by lannig

Thanks Sailingdog, can you find me more details of how to do that ??
That will be great !

I could... but I would have to invoice you for my time... If you can't get the information you need, after what I've given you... I'd say you're really beyond help.

[camaraderie]

Pardon me for being blunt, for I believe you are a sincere and talented guy who truly loves this boat. I've been through your whole website and note that you had the boat up for sale in its current state for $120,000. It apparently generated no interest at THAT price. Now you are selling shares for a total price of $240,000 or double the price that did not sell. The boat in a finished state in my opinion would not sell for anything close to that in the market. Finding 12 partners is a lot more difficult than finding one...especially for a boat that has a very limited market appeal. If I were you...I'd try to get a movie star out there to invest in "jane's" boat as you might have more luck with that than finding 12 people that are willing to pay twice the price that DIDN'T sell the boat to one person.
Again...sorry for the bluntness...just my opinion since you asked for them.

[lannig]

Just a rectification , she has alway been for sale as is for 120,000.00 Pounds Sterling not $ !! which reflect more her estimated value on european market !
Basically prices in USA and Europe are the same in numbers but in the USA it's in $
And with an exchange rate at GBL 1= 1.95$ ,it hurts !!
Boats like this one are a one off and are notoriously difficult to sold
I think ,may be I am wrong, that the fact she is not finished completely is a big no no !
Hence the theory to find a few partners to finish her , use her and sold her on european market
I know it will take time and she needs to have good exposure via media, rallies....
But if somebody want to buy her, I am ready to come and finish her to the new owner specs
Do not mind the bluntness ! make you think more clearly !!
Thanks

PS: will check my website to see if there is a mistake on the price

[camaraderie]

Lannig...you're right...no mistake but mine.
Neverheless...my comments on value still apply. If it is tough to find one person to invest in an old wooden boat that is being restored...it will be even tougher to find 12 even with the price split. Nevertheless...good luck!

[KeelHaulin]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

If it is tough to find one person to invest in an old wooden boat that is being restored...it will be even tougher to find 12 even with the price split.

Yes; this is what I was thinking... IMHO most boats are difficult to sell or fraction with the large surplus of boats on the US market. Only a very small percentage of boat owners would even consider owning a wood hull sailboat; not to mention one 50+ feet long. You need to also realize that a boat that is not currently operational has much less "value" in the eyes of those considering spending anything on a boat.

I think the best thing to consider doing is getting her surveyed as-is by a competent surveyor who will respect the fact that you have invested so much time/money into her. If you are not already mortgaged on the hull you could then go to a mortgage company and request a loan against the hull so you can get the boat completed. This might be a long-shot; but if you are refused the loan at least you will have some documentation on the "value" so can provide a basis for selling fractional shares in her.

I have seen this boat in the water at NVM. Last summer I was working on my boat there. It is a beautiful boat and it would be nice to see her sailing on SF Bay when she is finished! You might contact some of the SF area yacht clubs (St Francis, Corinthian, Golden Gate, etc) and find out if there are any rescue foundations within their clubs that can assist you financially or in labor to complete her. There are many, many rich people in the SF Bay Area; if you are lucky you might get put in contact with a 'philanthropist'!

The other thing I might mention is that if you were to sell shares in the boat it should be done through USCG documentation; and ownership rights should be a part of the vessel document. If you do this you can sell fractional shares of any percentage you wish; maybe sell two 1/12'th shares and make the boat available to those people for 1 month of sailing and living onboard each summer. Regardless I think the boat needs to be completed in order to attract potential buyers.

Another way to go would be to make the boat into a charter business. There are several wood hull sailboats in this size range doing this; and the owners are living their dream while getting paid to have other people onboard helping them sail their dreamboat!

You might also consider advertising in the Latitude38 classifieds ( www.latitude38.com ); maybe you could talk to the editor about getting a story written that would help you gain some support in finishing the boat. There is a huge sailing community in the SF Bay Area; Lat38 is the best way to reach someone in SF who might be interested in your boat.

[lannig]

Originally Posted by KeelHaulin

Yes; this is what I was thinking... IMHO most boats are difficult to sell or fraction with the large surplus of boats on the US market. Only a very small percentage of boat owners would even consider owning a wood hull sailboat; not to mention one 50+ feet long. You need to also realize that a boat that is not currently operational has much less "value" in the eyes of those considering spending anything on a boat.

I think the best thing to consider doing is getting her surveyed as-is by a competent surveyor who will respect the fact that you have invested so much time/money into her. If you are not already mortgaged on the hull you could then go to a mortgage company and request a loan against the hull so you can get the boat completed. This might be a long-shot; but if you are refused the loan at least you will have some documentation on the "value" so can provide a basis for selling fractional shares in her.

I have seen this boat in the water at NVM. Last summer I was working on my boat there. It is a beautiful boat and it would be nice to see her sailing on SF Bay when she is finished! You might contact some of the SF area yacht clubs (St Francis, Corinthian, Golden Gate, etc) and find out if there are any rescue foundations within their clubs that can assist you financially or in labor to complete her. There are many, many rich people in the SF Bay Area; if you are lucky you might get put in contact with a 'philanthropist'!

The other thing I might mention is that if you were to sell shares in the boat it should be done through USCG documentation; and ownership rights should be a part of the vessel document. If you do this you can sell fractional shares of any percentage you wish; maybe sell two 1/12'th shares and make the boat available to those people for 1 month of sailing and living onboard each summer. Regardless I think the boat needs to be completed in order to attract potential buyers.

Another way to go would be to make the boat into a charter business. There are several wood hull sailboats in this size range doing this; and the owners are living their dream while getting paid to have other people onboard helping them sail their dreamboat!

You might also consider advertising in the Latitude38 classifieds ( www.latitude38.com ); maybe you could talk to the editor about getting a story written that would help you gain some support in finishing the boat. There is a huge sailing community in the SF Bay Area; Lat38 is the best way to reach someone in SF who might be interested in your boat.

Thanks Keelhauling !
Sorry not to post back fast but I was not on the forum these last 2 days !
Glad to know you have seen her in Napa ! Great marina ! Nice peoples !
There was a feature on her in Lattitude 38 in 2002 under her old name : Landfall II ,about the former owner who start restoring her !
USCG registration is a big NO for me as I am not a us citizen !!
I am in discussion at the moment with a wanabee partner
So we see what's going to happen !!
Charter does not realy interest me
But thanks very much for your advices
They are appreciated
And if you happen to know some "philantropist" ??