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New to the Area

5K views 30 replies 7 participants last post by  chef2sail 
#1 ·
Hello all

I'm new the area in sailing terms. I've got a number of questions that I'm hoping people can help me out with. I'm currently looking at buying a Catalina 320 out of Annapolis.

1. I'm currently living up west of Richmond on 64 and am thinking of putting in at Deltaville. Does anyone have any recommendations for marinas

2. Can anyone tell me how Virginia taxes boats. It's very confusing but I think it's personal property taxes charged per year. Are there also sales taxes.

3. I'm going to move the boat on it's bottom. I don't know the bay very well. Is there a list someplace of captains that I might be able to hire to help me move the boat from Annapolis to Deltaville.

Thanks,
Jason
 
#2 ·
So I'm looking at Google and I'm seeing that because of the way that 64 goes down the coast I see that I've got about the same drive to Deltaville as I would to like Gloucester Point or Hampton. Is there any advantage to moving down that way. I understand that Hampton has a much lower or non-existent tax rate for boats.
 
#3 ·
JAA welcome. I am sure you might be able to get some of the SN memebers to help bring your boat to Deltaville. Good way to meet others also.,'

A number of the Ches memebers keep their boats in the area you are looking at.

Dave
 
#4 · (Edited)
Hello all

I'm new the area in sailing terms. I've got a number of questions that I'm hoping people can help me out with. I'm currently looking at buying a Catalina 320 out of Annapolis.

1. I'm currently living up west of Richmond on 64 and am thinking of putting in at Deltaville. Does anyone have any recommendations for marinas

2. Can anyone tell me how Virginia taxes boats. It's very confusing but I think it's personal property taxes charged per year. Are there also sales taxes.

3. I'm going to move the boat on it's bottom. I don't know the bay very well. Is there a list someplace of captains that I might be able to hire to help me move the boat from Annapolis to Deltaville.

Thanks,
Jason
Jason,

I had my boat in Deltaville for 5 years before finally giving up and moving the boat closer to home in NOVA. For 5 years I drove to Deltaville to Sail -- Its that good.

Marina's are somewhat subjective, but I thought Stingray Harbor was the nicest in the area. If you are looking for a Yacht Club, Fishing Bay Yacht Club is fantastic and is the only place down there with amenities that I thought were nicer than Stingray. Dozier's is actually a cut above Stingray in terms of facilities but the prices show it and its the least protected marina in the area.

If your boat is stored in Deltaville, you'll pay personal property tax to Middlesex County annually. The rates are really really low. Call the Commissioner of Revenue to get the formula.

Moving a boat from Annapolis is not beyond the skills of an average sailor. You can do Annapolis to Solomon's in one day and Solomon's to Deltaville the next, or there are many places you could bail out between Solomon's and D'ville once you get past the Potomac. I did Deltaville to Pt. Lookout Marina on the Potomac in a day with a very late start, and Pt Lookout to Herrington Harbor (about 18 NM south of Annapolis) the next day when we moved our boat north.

PM me if you want to discuss in more detail.
 
#5 ·
Being based in the upper Bay, I can't answer many of your questions but I will try anyway!

I would like to put a plug in for Deltaville as it is a beautiful place. It the economics work for you, you will discover that there is a great sailing community there. This will be an obvious benefit to a newer sailor (and older alike). Cruising destinations are plentiful both up and down the Bay, providing variety.

I have sailed the length of the Bay on numerous occasions. You should have no problems sailing your new boat South. Buy yourself some good charts (I prefer the Williams and Heintz charts of Maryland Waters and Virginia Waters) and you will see that there are great stopping places all the way down. The longest stretch is between Solomon's and Great Wicomico R. Just watch your weather window and leave plenty of time. I'm sure you'll find people to help you sail her. I wish I could but am tied up 'Til summer. There are many good, deep ports to spend the night in or wait out weather.

Where did you buy your C-320? What is her name?
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the advice so far. What your telling me is confirming what I've read so far. Both Stingray and FishingBay are on my list to call this morning.

I downloaded the NOAA ENC charts for MD and VA and started to review them. I'll be ordering paper charts as soon as the purchase goes through.

As for name were still considering it. Right now we're thinking "Money Penny" and if and when we get a dink naming it "Loose Change"
Corny I know but it's better then some things.

Jason
 
#7 ·
If you really want to hire a delivery Captain, when you call Stingray ask for Lisa Morrow's contact info. She is an experienced delivery Captain with experience far and wide beyond the Chesapeake. She's a live aboard at Stingray and is a GREAT person to know in Deltaville. When not on deliveries she works at the West Marine Store in D-ville. (The bigger one, there are actually 2 believe it or not.)

Lisa can put you on to the people to know for every service you'll ever need for your boat. Her advice saved me a ton of money over the years. Both the rigger and diesel mechanic I used down there were unknown to me before Lisa told me about them. Both provided better service and prices than the big boatyards. I will say I had good experience with Shroders Yacht Systems down there and that's where I'd go if I were outfitting a boat.

Getting back to moving the boat, I'd say it would be a great experience if you have the time to move it yourself. It really is just a long 2 day trip that could be streched to a 3 day weekend trip to really enjoy.

Also, not sure if you were refering to Fishing Bay Marina or Fishing Bay Yacht Club in your latest post. I didn't mention Fishing Bay Marina, but it would be my second choice as nicest resonably priced marina in Deltaville with Deltaville Yacht Center/Chesapeake Yacht Sales being 3rd.

If you're a bit more rooted than me, FBYC is a great option though. I had in the back of my mind that I'd eventually have to move the boat closer so I never pursued membership though. I did crew on a boat there for a few seasons so I'm well familiar with the facility.
 
#8 ·
Jason

VA taxes boats through sales tax at time of purchase and then each and every year after via personal property taxes. The personal property tax is calculated by often unknowable formulas by each county and that can play in to where you slip the boat. The counties do a good job of ferreting out the boats, walking the marinas and parking lots listing names,makers, home port, numbers, etc.

A few counties/independent cities "waive" the boat tax.

You may want to look at the northern neck of VA, as there are much less expensive slips and more options to get there than keeping your boat in Deltaville will allow. We have several Richmond folks where we keep our boat. On the northern side of Deltaville the channel is shallow coming in. But they do have TWO west marine stores.

All the best and for sure take her yourself. Well worth taking a day off and using that long weekend to come down. A day from Nap town to Solomon's and another easy day on to Deltaville. Plenty of spots to duck into should the weather turn.

enjoy
 
#9 ·
Jason

...On the northern side of Deltaville the channel is shallow coming in. But they do have TWO west marine stores.

enjoy
The Broad Creek entrance is narrow and relatively shallow (I don't think I ever saw less than 8'), but it is a straight shot in.

The Jackson Creek side is just as shallow but is a large figure "S" to enter. Coming in it looks like you're going to end up on the beach before you finally reach the turn towards open water, but you can't get excited and just drive towards the "big water" or you'll ground on a shoal. You have to continue to follow the marks around the rest of the "S" before you get into safe depths.
 
#10 ·
I've been looking at the NOAA ENC charts. And it looks like anything around Deltaville has shallow water to deal with. I will have the wing keel at a depth of something like 4'3" So as long as I can stay in the channels it looks like I should be ok.

I've talked to StingRay point and from there website it sounds like a good place. I was talking about FishingBay Marina as I didn't realize it was separate from the FBYC. I think until I really figure out if I'm in the right spot I'm going to avoid expensive yacht clubs. I saw that StingRay Point has a Yacht Club onsite so it might be fun to join that.

I've been sailing for some time now. Most of our sailing has been on a flood control lake in Iowa. But we've also chartered in the BVi and the Greek Isles. I think that I could make it back from Annapolis to Deltaville but due to relocation and such we've been off boats for a couple years and it's that local that I'm afraid I just don't have.

Thanks,
Jason
 
#12 ·
I've been looking at the NOAA ENC charts. And it looks like anything around Deltaville has shallow water to deal with. I will have the wing keel at a depth of something like 4'3" So as long as I can stay in the channels it looks like I should be ok.

I've talked to StingRay point and from there website it sounds like a good place. I was talking about FishingBay Marina as I didn't realize it was separate from the FBYC. I think until I really figure out if I'm in the right spot I'm going to avoid expensive yacht clubs. I saw that StingRay Point has a Yacht Club onsite so it might be fun to join that.

I've been sailing for some time now. Most of our sailing has been on a flood control lake in Iowa. But we've also chartered in the BVi and the Greek Isles. I think that I could make it back from Annapolis to Deltaville but due to relocation and such we've been off boats for a couple years and it's that local that I'm afraid I just don't have.

Thanks,
Jason
Stingray Harbour Yacht Club is the largest club in Deltaville outside FBYC as far as I'm aware, but they're a marina based club with no facilities of their own. We were members during our time down there and met a lot of great folks. I definitely understand your point on the commitment to a yacht club. That's why I never joined but you should know about them if you're going to be in the area, especially if you intend to race you will want to get to know some folks over there. SHYC, is not a racing club.

As far as D'ville having shallow water, from what I've seen, it's no worse than anywhere else on the Chesapeake and it has a plethora of qualities that endeared the area to my heart. 1. If it's blowing stink on the bay, you can turn left and go up the Rappahannock from Broad Creek, or right to sail in the Piankatank rivers. 2. There are so many good anchorages within a few hours you almost always have the option of being alone or at least not feel crowded. 3. There are very few power boats in the area, most are work boats, and they all seem far more courteous than powerboaters in my current area, even the SeaRay's. 4. Deltaville is about at the widest spot on the bay and crossing over to Onancock, you'll be out of site of land while still in relatively safe protected water.

Here's a short list of places you'll want to visit:
Off the Rappahannock River
-Carter Creek
-Corratoman River - We loved the West Branch but the East Branch has its attractons also
-Urbanna - Don't miss the Oyster Festival

North of Windmill Point
Little Bay
AntiPoison Creek
Dymer Creek
Indian Creek
Dividing Creek
Mill Creek
Great Wicomico - The anchorage behind Sandy Point is one of those post card places

Piankatank side
-Fishing Bay - One of those Must see anchorages on the Chesapeake
-Godfrey Bay

BTW, with your level of experience I think you could easily handle the delivery and it would give you a bit of that local experience over the most popular sections of the bay. A trip down south from Deltaville and you,d be comfortable taking your boat just about anywhere on the bay since you'd have at least been by most places before.
 
#11 ·
Jason

at 4'3", you are perfect for this area...I just mentioned the channel, because I ran aground twice in the same year leaving the (not paying attention to the turn Midlife mentions) as it "looked" like I was further towards shore than I was..

Awesome area and minutes to the bay. Again lots of hidey holes and some of the best hurricane holes (if you need them) on the east coast. Annapolis is only two days away and Norfolk less. The Atlantic is there when you feel the need.

All the best and welcome!
 
#13 ·
I've stayed at Jackson creek and they were very accommodating and nice. The entrance is a challenge but you will get used to it easily.

The names you were looking at are nice but iwas curious as to what boat you were buying. By any chance is it a boat named Painkiller? If so, it's a fastidiously maintained yacht.

Good luck and happy sailing!

Tod
 
#15 ·
I've stayed at Jackson creek and they were very accommodating and nice. The entrance is a challenge but you will get used to it easily.

The names you were looking at are nice but iwas curious as to what boat you were buying. By any chance is it a boat named Painkiller? If so, it's a fastidiously maintained yacht.

Good luck and happy sailing!

Tod
No sorry. It's a 2001 320 currently names Sea Ya. If I was buying a boat named Painkiller I think the name would stay. I've consumed more than my fair share of painkillers in the BVI's.
 
#14 ·
I can't thank you guys enough. So far I think I'm leading towards either Stingray Point or FishingBay Marina. The nice thing that I'm seeing about Deltaville is that if I find that I really don't like one marina it would be easy to move about.

As for racing that's not a big deal for me. I'm not much into racing. I might sit off the line and take a few pictures but that's about it anymore.

I'm studying the charts for the area's trying to put together a plan to move the boat.

I'm going to need to get a good set of charts.
 
#16 ·
So I went down to Deltaville and visited a number of marina's. I think it's down to Dozier's and Fishing Bay Marina. I really like Dozier's, they were very nice to us and our pets. The only thing that concerns me there is that they are very exposed from the north. Though I don't know how much of an issue that really would be durning the summer.

FishingBay is nice but it seems very nice but their finger piers are very short and we would almost have to back in to the slip around a 90 degree corner of the covered docks for the slip they offered me. That or go onto their expensive floating docks. Which are very nice but expensive.

Jason
 
#17 · (Edited)
So I went down to Deltaville and visited a number of marina's. I think it's down to Dozier's and Fishing Bay Marina. I really like Dozier's, they were very nice to us and our pets. The only thing that concerns me there is that they are very exposed from the north. Though I don't know how much of an issue that really would be durning the summer.

FishingBay is nice but it seems very nice but their finger piers are very short and we would almost have to back in to the slip around a 90 degree corner of the covered docks for the slip they offered me. That or go onto their expensive floating docks. Which are very nice but expensive.

Jason
YouTube - Storm Surge, Deltaville Stingray Pt

YouTube - Norview 2009 Storm Surge Off of Rappahannock

As nice as Doziers is, I wouldn't want my boat there due to the exposed location. They at least have floating docks, but its far too exposed for me having seen a least a couple of storms a year like this one.
 
#18 ·
Umm. Those are some interesting videos. But Norview is farther down the creek and they still got that kind of surge. Wouldn't everyone be affected somehow.

Also couldn't you get the same thing from the south in Fishing Bay. The wind was blowing about 10-15 out of the Southish and there was a lot of chop come in to Fishing Bay Marina. Fishing Bay's only spots for me our out on the end or the floating docks deep down inside. I would suspect those are well protected but they are expensive.

Jason
 
#19 ·
Umm. Those are some interesting videos. But Norview is farther down the creek and they still got that kind of surge. Wouldn't everyone be affected somehow.

Also couldn't you get the same thing from the south in Fishing Bay. The wind was blowing about 10-15 out of the Southish and there was a lot of chop come in to Fishing Bay Marina. Fishing Bay's only spots for me our out on the end or the floating docks deep down inside. I would suspect those are well protected but they are expensive.

Jason
There is at least a bit of a bend before you get to any of the other marinas on Broad Creek including Norview and the further back you are the less you need to worry about wind driven waves. It's dang near a straight shot all the way from Windmill Point to Dozier's docks.

That's among the reasons I always liked Stingray Point. There is zero fetch, so you just have wind and surge to worry about.

YMMV. We all jus' pays our money, an takes our chances.
 
#25 ·
annapolis to solomons

I tried to post this before so hopefully I will remember everything I said before.

You mentioned you were a lake sailor. On the bay you need to watch out for the tide. You want to plan your travel time to be with the tide not against. Also you want to avoid the wind blowing in the opposite direction of the tide. This will cause the waves to build higher and be steeper. Also gererally the farther south you go on the bay the bigger the wave get. A steady east or west wind would be best for your trip

Also does you new boat do hull speed? Mine does not. It only does 3.5 know under motor. So I planned smaller hops.

From annapolis you can do herrington harbor north. HH North is cheaper the the posh HH south but still is fancy enough with a laundry, wifi and I think it has a West Marine in the parking lot.

From there you can probably make it to the solomons however on our trip south we pulled in into flag harbor yacht haven because by 10:30 it was 95+ and my wife looked like she was going to faint. This is a no frills marina. We spent the hottest part of the day in the air conditioned bathroom. Then cooked dinner in the picnic pavilon. Then came the highlight of the trip. After the sun went down behind the trees we walked down the road to the beech north of the marina and went hunting for sharks teeth. We found a lot and a alligator tooth. You might keep this one in mind as an emergency stop if things get rough.

From there it is a short hop to the solomons. The first night we stayed at zahniser yachting center on the right side as you go up back creek. This was cheaper and they have a gas dock and a restuarant. However the town is on the opposite side of the creek, Supposedly that will loan you a car but I did not see that until we were checking out.

Next night we spent at the more expensive marina across back creek. They also have a restuarant, laundry, will loan you bikes. West marine is a short bike ride up the main street. Or you can walk it like I did. They also have a sail loft which we needed because we had ripped our main sail coming around the point into the river,
 
#26 ·
I tried to post this before so hopefully I will remember everything I said before.

You mentioned you were a lake sailor. On the bay you need to watch out for the tide. You want to plan your travel time to be with the tide not against. Also you want to avoid the wind blowing in the opposite direction of the tide. This will cause the waves to build higher and be steeper. Also gererally the farther south you go on the bay the bigger the wave get. A steady east or west wind would be best for your trip

Also does you new boat do hull speed? Mine does not. It only does 3.5 know under motor. So I planned smaller hops.

From annapolis you can do herrington harbor north. HH North is cheaper the the posh HH south but still is fancy enough with a laundry, wifi and I think it has a West Marine in the parking lot.

From there you can probably make it to the solomons however on our trip south we pulled in into flag harbor yacht haven because by 10:30 it was 95+ and my wife looked like she was going to faint. This is a no frills marina. We spent the hottest part of the day in the air conditioned bathroom. Then cooked dinner in the picnic pavilon. Then came the highlight of the trip. After the sun went down behind the trees we walked down the road to the beech north of the marina and went hunting for sharks teeth. We found a lot and a alligator tooth. You might keep this one in mind as an emergency stop if things get rough.

From there it is a short hop to the solomons. The first night we stayed at zahniser yachting center on the right side as you go up back creek. This was cheaper and they have a gas dock and a restuarant. However the town is on the opposite side of the creek, Supposedly that will loan you a car but I did not see that until we were checking out.

Next night we spent at the more expensive marina across back creek. They also have a restuarant, laundry, will loan you bikes. West marine is a short bike ride up the main street. Or you can walk it like I did. They also have a sail loft which we needed because we had ripped our main sail coming around the point into the river,
Unless you have time to spare, I'd say Herrington is too close for a stop, being only about 17 or so NM's from Naptown. A Catalina 320 should be able to do Annapolis to HH in a morning.

Flag Harbor is a good call if you find you need a bail out point before Solomon's since its the only place I know between HH and Soloman's where you can bail out. It might be a good place to stop this time of year, since its a bit closer to Annapolis than Solomon's and its more direct access to the bay for the next day. During summer, with longer hours of daylight, Annapolis to Solomon's would be doable.

Wind against tide is never a good thing, but short of a gale your C320 will safely handle this trip regardless. Now it may be north of miserable if you have days of 20-25 knt winds stirring things up, which is not terribly uncommon. The mouth of the Potomac is the area where you are most likely to experience the famed Chesapeake chop.

As a planning help, my wife and I were easily able to make it from Point Look Out on the Potomac to HHS with a 7:30 start, arriving at 3:30. This was a delivery so it was straight motoring. A C320 should be able to about the same.
 
#27 ·
So the trip is done. We did it this past Friday and Saturday. And all I can say is that it was cold, cold, cold. But determination sometimes trumps intelligence.

A friend and I drove up on Thursday and did closing and did some repairs and got her read to go. Stayed on the boat Thursday night and pulled out of Rock Creek about 7:00 AM. It was about 32 degrees when we left but sunny and clear. We had a confused waves and tides and fought our way to the upper bay bridge. Once we got past the bridge the winds came our from the NW and we put up the sails and with the motor we were doing about 7KT SOG according to the GPS. My friend and I took turns over the day to stay warm in the cabin. We pulled into the Soloman's about 4:00 in the afternoon.

We stayed overnight and then took off on Saturday morning at about 6:30. The winds were very light and variable so we flew the jib for a while but found that we weren't really getting any power from it so we ran with the sails down and just on the motor. We did about 6.5 kt the whole way and pulled into Deltaville at about 3:30 that afternoon.

All and all the bay isn't as scary of a place as I thought it was going to be.

Jason
 
#28 ·
Jason,

Glad to hear you made it safe and sound. It was chilly out this weekend. Where did you get the boat in Rock Creek. That is where I keep mine. The trip down was a good one. Its a long day to Solomons...and the next day it seems to take 4 hours to get across the mouth of the Potomac...but you did it. Hurray.

The Chesapeake isnt as serene as you found it this weekend. It can get very knarly when there is a storm as it is so shallow it sets up a good chop...and the summertime T Storms can be very "notable".

All in all its a great place to have a sailboat. I am sure youll make some friends in Deltaville and there are so many neat places to explore and anchor overnight down there also.

If you ever come back up the bay give a holler.

Fair winds,

Dave
 
#30 ·
The boat was at Fairview Marina.

I realize that Bay can get bad weather wise but I was more worried about the big shipping traffic and the navigation. In that respect it wasn't that bad.

Jason
Jason,

Awesome. I knew from your postings you had enough experience to make the trip on your own and now you already have a bit of knowledge over a pretty good chunk of the bay. I think that will make you less hesitant to strike out and explore on your new boat so you'll enjoy it more.

Its true that the bay can get rough (and I've been dumb enough to put myself out there a few times with 30+ knot winds against tide) but the great thing is there are so many places on the bay to duck in, you don't really HAVE to be out in the snot. If you don't deliberately go out in a gale, the only thing you might encounter is a summer thunderstorm which of course can be scary, but other than a lightning strike is not likely to be really dangerous if you either maintain sea room or are securely anchored.

Enjoy Deltaville.
 
#31 ·
Mid you are so right in what you said to jason...and he will enjoy having his boat on the Chesapeake
'
Jason...did tyou get to meet the owner of Fairview. Hr is like ADD on crack.

You went right by the transom of our boat when you left Fairbiew as we are at the Maryland Yacht Club, the place with the gas dock you passed.

Glad your trip went so well. Hope to see you up north again.

Dave
 
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