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Hourly rate for Brightwork

14K views 33 replies 16 participants last post by  travlin-easy 
#1 ·
I really need to work on the exterior teak on my boat, and got a quote from a local shop. I thought I needed to have my hearing checked, when I was told the rate was $70/hr.:eek::eek: Last time it was done, was around $25/ hr.
When I told a painter friend, who is an excellent craftsman ($12/hr), he was just amazed people actually pay that in the marine business.
Any recommendations for reasonable craftsmen in the Deale area?
Thanks for the input,
Bernd
 
#2 ·
I'd imagine the $75/hour rate includes all materials and shop supplies and you're getting someone that is a trained pro under hire of a company (insurance, etc)

Where as the other rates, you're providing materials and hiring just the labor and taking on the risk if that worker gets injured on your jobsite. Plus, its probably a "cash" rate...if you 1099 the guy, I'll bet the hourly rate goes up.
 
#4 ·
Getting a quote from a "shop" you're going to pay. $75.00 per hour is actually within the average shop rate. You'll need to find a specialist who basically does brightwork and trim and get a job quote. Depending on how you like your wood, and your length, you could be looking between 500 - 10000 bucks so make sure you know what you want before you agree letting somebody touch your wood.
 
#6 ·
As an Flight Instructor and boat owner, labor rates for the marine trades simply amaze me. The guy that maintains several airplanes I fly is FAA certficated as both an Aircraft Inspector (AI)(can determine serviceablity of the airframe) and Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic (can do the work, but not sign off for return to service). He has about 25 years experience on a wide variety of aircraft on top of his certificates. His shop rate is $65/hour. He does all the work himself, so he's not just signing off work performed by less skilled labor.

When it comes to boat service, you get billed $60+-$75 an hour for the most unskilled, yard monkey, possessing absolutely zero knowledge of your boat or its systems. No wonder skilled guys are so hard to find in the marine trades. If we boat owners will pay that rate for some guy the yard can pay minimum wage, why hire someone with some skill that commands a higher rate? From what I've seen, it seems most yards/contractors keep a minimum of skilled guys around and use flunkies for the balance of the workforce, but bill the same rate regardless of qualifications.
 
#8 ·
In my part of the world (central Florida) semiskilled boat labor is $25.00 an hour where as highly skilled like a diesel mechanic is $90.00 an hour. Where the lines get blurry is when you hire the semiskilled to replace your fuel filters or tell the diesel mechanic that as long as he's here to clean your fuel tanks.

There's no way sanding and varnishing should cost $70.00 an hour in the middle of a depression.
 
#11 ·
Wow that crazy,

I build houses and do high end finishing carpentry, painting, renos.. Talk to the shop guys or any one.. And set a sq foot price.. That way it's far to both you and the guys doing it.. I would never hire anyone for an hourly rate, they tend to take longer witch means more $$
 
#12 ·
Pure capitalism at work -- they are charging what the market will bear (and at HHN, the bears run around in many cases with big fat wallets.) Don't forget that the yard is passing their overhead costs on to you. That means employee wages, health insurance, yard bonding/insurance fees, etc, etc.

From what I've seen at HHN, you can expect at least two guys to be working on your boat should you go that route. They do decent work, and actually seem to take the time to sand, clean, mask, prep, and finish the work. Having said that, I am aware of a few folks who have been less than thrilled with the results.

I take it that DIY is not an option for you?
 
#13 ·
I really need to work on the exterior teak on my boat,
Then work on the teak.
Or work to pay somebody to work on the teak.
Or, if the guy working on the teak is costing you more per hour than you earn, take a couple of days off and work on the teak.
Or hire your buddy the house painter with low self-esteem. He only charges $25/hr? A business that grosses $50K/yr isn't a business- it's a hobby that isn't surviving.

IMO boat maintenance is a lot like illegal immigration. If you don't want to do it, you really can't ***** about the cost.

As boat jobs go, it doesn't get much more user-friendly than brightwork.
 
#14 ·
Many self-employed folks, if they are really running a business, buygin insurance, putting away vacation pay and retirement and paying social security just like any real business does, are paying themselves about 1/3-1/4 of their "rate".

So while I wouldn't be surprised to find some guys off the truck working for $10 an hour, I wouldn't expect them to know how to varnish teak properly. How to get a real mirror finish with zero bubbles in it. Off the truck. I'd expect to pay at least $25/hour for someone who knew varnish. On the books? Yeah, I'd expect $50, $65, even $75 just depending on reputation and competition.

If you've got a painter working for $12/hour...give him some scrap redwood to practice on, and if he can do, you've also given him a lucrative new career!
 
#15 ·
Of course in the end you could do it yourself at the extended rate of double the quoted cost complete with a locker full of stuff you'll forget how to use in a couple of months or alternatively becoming the dock rat who's addicted to the preservation of everything wood.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Worked on a boat last summer, a trawler, which had the exterior teak "done" by the "how much can I save" mentality. The guy they hired decided that after stripping the teak, per the owners instructions, he would go to Home Depot and get some Thompson's Water Seal.

Yep he sprayed the ENTIRE boat. To this day the teak WILL NOT take ANY varnish, Cetol or other type product as the SILICONE in the Thompson's has permanently destroyed tens of thousands of dollars of exterior teak. It may be 30+ years before that teak will take a finish again.

Up here $45.00 -$75.00 is about the going rate for a brightwork guy/gal with a clue.....;)

If you want beautiful brightwork you have two options:

1 - Learn to DIY

2 - Have a 7 figure income.... Brightwork can easily exceed the value of many boats if paid for professionally...
 
#18 ·
+1 on Charlie's thoughts.

BJung -- I didn't want to come off as a Richard earlier, but this is really a no-brainer. DIY (all or part of the job) is the way to go.

Take the time to think about it.

1. Brightwork is not a critical system, and therefore speed of repair is not a factor. Your boat will sail just as well with bare teak as it will a Bristol finish.

2. The type and quality of the finish is largely a matter of taste, so it's really hard (but not impossible, as MaineSail noted above) to make a non-recoverable mistake. Yes, you can drive yourself to drink -- in itself not necessarily a bad thing -- trying to decide what finish to use or even if to use a finish at all, but what else are you gonna do when there's nothing else to do?

3. Even of you don't want to do the actual finishing yourself, you can shave a whole lot of hours off of the bill if you do most of the prep yourself. Paying yard rates to have someone else scrape varnish or mask gelcoat is just bad math.

4. Some (like Vigor) will say that the time spent babying your baby yourself has intrinsic value, in that she will take better care of YOU when things get dicey. Hard to prove, but always a good excuse to spend time at the boat (if you've got someone significant keeping track of how you invest your leisure hours.)

5. The downside is that it can become habit forming -- sometimes to the point that it becomes distracting. Once you've got hundreds of hours invested in a showroom finish, you may get a little anal about maintaining and protecting it. This is likely why you see many actively sailed boats with crappy looking or bare brightwork, and many dock queens with Bristol finishes (NB -- this is a generalization, and not meant to say that boats with great looking brightwork are dock queens. ;))
 
#19 ·
Maine-
"the SILICONE in the Thompson's has permanently destroyed tens of thousands of dollars" Yah, which is why some folks and most yards only want to know about INSURED contractors.
Porfin, I'd argue that brightwork DOES have a ticking clock and MUST be done on schedule. If you don't keep up with it, water gets under, wood deteriorates...Hey, how's that insurance policy?!
And than if you want to do the prep yourself, you've got all that varnish to dispose of, and you have to make sure you're not going to gash or burn or scrap the wood beneath the varnish as well. "Ooops" is forever in that case.
At a certain point...you make your compromise. Which to many of us means going over to someone else's boat when we want to go "OOH! and AAH!" over brightwork. :)
 
#21 ·
Sure glad you guys are not hiring me to play music and sing! ;) I charge $125/hr for those services with a $500 minimum for private parties. When it comes to doing the teak, I do it myself - it's not difficult to do it right the first time and the results are fantastic.

Good Luck,

Gary :cool:
 
#23 ·
Thanks all for the input. It seems expectations with regards to hourly rates are pretty much across the board. I was sort of surprised to read that some think $70/ hr is acceptable for sanding and varnishing. To those who think DIY is an option, the quote was for 80 hrs, I think that might be a tad high, but at least 60 hrs are needed. Essentially, that could be 2weeks, and I would rather spend what little time off I can take this time of year sailing.
CharlieCobra seems to be able to survive and enjoy life at $40/hr just fine and does a nice job at that rate (from what I have seen here).
The comments about HHN are not deserved. I consider their yard rates reasonable and quality of work quite good. But they don't do brightwork.
Thanks for the pm's, I will check out the options.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Essentially, that could be 2weeks, and I would rather spend what little time off I can take this time of year sailing.
Then expect to work four weeks to pay for it. Sorry, I have little sympathy for those who ***** about the price of labour to do a job they don't want to do.

The remainder of this response has been edited at the request of the moderators.
It is apparently perfectly acceptable to aggressively complain about the cost of manual labour, but not acceptable to aggressively defend those costs.
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
If you don't appreciate my input, feel free to ignore me.
I provided you another option, you just don't like it.

I ain't bitter, I do my own brightwork.

The remainder of this post has been edited at the request of the moderators. Those of you who know how to use the alert button should also know how to use the ignore button if you find posts that hit uncomfortably close to home.
 
#31 ·
I take care of my own teak on a Crealock 37.

Last year stripped down most all of the external woodwork and laid in 10 coats of Epifanes. Took awhile but it looks great now.

One of the recommendations made by Rebecca Wittman in her excellent book "Brightwork, The Art of Finishing Wood" is that once you restored the brightwork is too cover it with a boat tent. Suggests the maintenance of the varnish can then be reduced to a once per year project of light sanding and 3 coats.

Have not built a tent but currently in the process of building covers made of Sunbrella for all the brightwork.

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish, Crealock 37, Hull 207
 
#32 ·
Back when I was more interested in and owned classic boats, by Dad and I owned a 1939 Stadel Cutter. The old girl was loaded with varnish. We basically set aside roughly a day a month to maintain her. That was all maintenance except the work more properly done during haul out. We could typically get by with 2 to 3 coats of varnish a year (and remember this was Florida) and could typically apply each coat on a little more than a day.

But we had it down to a science. Take the mast for example, sand the mast on the way up, tack the mast and spot sand holidays on the way down. Vaccuum or change your clothes while on deck. Final mast wipe on the way up, and apply the varnish on the way down. The horizontals at the head of the mast and tthe op of the spreaders were painted with white enamel.

And while I was doing the mast, my dad would be sanding the varnish on deck. I would help with that when I was on deck before de-dusting for the coat on the mast. The rules were that varnished needed to be applied at least 3 hours before sunset to avoid the dew, so you get the picture. It was rare that we had to apply varnish the next day but it was more likely to happen in fall than spring.
 
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