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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Destinations > Chesapeake / Central US east coast > Chesapeake Bay
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  #81  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvio View Post
TakeFive,
Perhaps it's the heavier boats that makes the difference in what "feels" like a great sailing day on the bay? Or maybe we just had steadier conditions lower down the bay? We also spent Sunday out and had spectacular sailing. Not the best I've ever seen, I'll save that designation for the one particular day going from Bimini to New Providence in the Bahamas or perhaps a couple days sailing a beam reach up the Hawke Channel between Key West and Key Largo.

The only gusty wind I saw Sunday was at the mouth of the Patuxant River going out into the bay. In the bay I saw steady 12-15kn winds which fell off to 7-9kn around 5:00 pm or so.
I'm just going by the data.

As I said, it looked like great sailing conditions on the Bay on Sunday - based on your personal observations and the buoy data. But very gusty up the Delaware River - also based on my personal observations and the recorded data.
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Last edited by TakeFive; 05-29-2013 at 11:33 AM.
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  #82  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Interesting that you guys rave about how great Sunday was on the Bay. I looked up the wind data for that day, and while Patapsco buoy saw 10-15 mph sustained and gusts typically 3 mph higher (peak gust of 22 mph at 1 pm), Philadelphia had 17-22 mph sustained with gusts 27-33 mph. Based on how the trees were getting pushed around in our yard, we opted for a bike ride instead of a boat ride on Sunday.

Monday, however, was glorious weather with 10-13 mph sustained and no gusts. We made it from Essington to downtown Philly with the current in 2 hours, and made it back against the slowing current in 3 hours.

I've compared the wind data at the two different locations in past years, and we do seem to get a steadier, more predictable mid-summer breeze than you guys do down on the Bay. That, and the 12 minute distance from my house, are about the only advantages of our otherwise mediocre sailing range.
I would assume you got our Sunday weather on Monday, and your Sunday weather was our Saturday weather.
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  #83  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

We had gusts to 40 apparent on Sunday going down the bay to Galesville, blew our raft up off the anchor (5 boats, about 75k pounds) until we dropped 3 anchors out.

Then Monday coming back up we set RPM for what should have been 6kts and were only making 4.5, in no wind at all. Got tired of motoring so we took a ball in Naptown harbor and watched the idiots go by.
Tuesday saw the same thing, current on the bay heading south held us from 6 to 4.5, and under the bridge we got slowed to 3.6 at times.

Still, it was time on the boat so it was all good.
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  #84  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Interesting that you guys rave about how great Sunday was on the Bay. I looked up the wind data for that day, and while Patapsco buoy saw 10-15 mph sustained and gusts typically 3 mph higher (peak gust of 22 mph at 1 pm), Philadelphia had 17-22 mph sustained with gusts 27-33 mph. Based on how the trees were getting pushed around in our yard, we opted for a bike ride instead of a boat ride on Sunday.

Monday, however, was glorious weather with 10-13 mph sustained and no gusts. We made it from Essington to downtown Philly with the current in 2 hours, and made it back against the slowing current in 3 hours.

I've compared the wind data at the two different locations in past years, and we do seem to get a steadier, more predictable mid-summer breeze than you guys do down on the Bay. That, and the 12 minute distance from my house, are about the only advantages of our otherwise mediocre sailing range.
Not sure what to make of this post except to say that it was stronger than the Patapsco Buoy indicated most of the day from first hand knowledge Maybe others will chime in on what they saw. We saw 15+ most of the day as we trucked down the Bay. 10-15 wouldn't have evoked the great sailing conditions most have made comments on.

We go right by that weather station on our way out the river. I would also not take a weather station at the confluence of a river and the Bay as those who sail out of the Patapsco know that sometimes there is a " cancellation effect" or "strengthening effect" at the ends of rivers where they meet the Bay. At the Magothy and Severn mouths it was a steady 20-22 on Sunday as the wind funneled directly down the river. Thomas Point light house is a better judge.

Your comparison does make sense really but I don't understand the point. Of course the same wind will flow faster in a narrower confined area like the Delaware only 2 miles across that the Chesapeake which is 5-6 miles even in the narrowest of areas up north. If you wanted strong winds on Sunday Ill bet the winds at the Key Bridge were much stronger than at the Patapsco buoy. In the summer many times there is wind on the Patapsco River when it is lighter in the Bay. We virtually hit the " wall of calm" as we head into the Bay.

Quote:
I've compared the wind data at the two different locations in past years, and we do seem to get a steadier, more predictable mid-summer breeze than you guys do down on the Bay. That, and the 12 minute distance from my house, are about the only advantages of our otherwise mediocre sailing range
As far as this is concerned there is no comparison. You can travel in all directions on the Chesapeake and can get home not fighting a current. There are places to gunkhole and overnight in complete wilderness. You can sail from March- Dec and even longer. It is hard to beat the 12 minutes to your boat. In our case the 35 minute drive is just long enough and we usually are there 2-3 nights anyway. Many Pennsylvanians keep their boats in the Chesapeake and don't mind the drive as they stay for the weekend or a few days on their boat. It all depends on your type of sailing you can or want to do.

If you want to sail back and forth across a river tacking every 25 minutes you can still do that here.
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  #85  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

My point was simple. We are not very far away, but on Sunday the weather was very different at our two different locations based on the objective weather data.

I also acknowledged that most people would prefer sailing on the Chesapeake. No need to pile on.

That's it. No debate intended. I would prefer not to start one.

End of story.
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  #86  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

Sorry didn't mean to pile on.

Rick, Certainly no argument intended, but a discussion will occur if you make a claim which is not substantiated by direct observation of other observers including myself ( my wind indicator was pegged over 20 most of the day) , then come to a sweeping inaccurate conclusion. I am not trying to argue just want to make sure that accurate FACTS are presented.

I am challenging your data. It is inaccurate. Not sure what you are reading as the historical data for the day. Patapsco Buoy which as I said is an inaccurate way to judge winds on the Bay as its sits at the end of a river.

Is it possible you are reading the NOAA buoy observation for the day measured in m/s historical data? Please let me know if I am in error or looking at the wrong observations here.

Here are the SAR observations from the Patapsco buoy which show 12-17 knots

Buoy Center - Station 44043 - Patapsco, MD

Or the wind speed graphs which show wind speed at 20+ mph all day

Real time wind & weather report Patapsco Buoy 2013-05-25 - Windfinder

Here are the SAR observations from the Key Bridge readings which are like your Delaware River

Buoy Center - Station FSKM2 - 8574728 - Francis Scott Key Bridge, MD

Or the wind speed graphs which show wind speed at 18-25 mph all day

Real time wind & weather report Francis Scott Key Bridge 2013-05-25 - Windfinder
note graph shows winds between

And here are the SAR readings from the Tolchester which is in the open Bay and shows 14-6 knots

Or the wind speed graphs which show wind speed at 18-20+ mph all day

Real time wind & weather report Tolchester Beach 2013-05-25 - Windfinder

BTW all graphs show gusts in excess of 30 mph on Saturday


Here is the data from International Airport where you were sailing Sunday in mph . It shows less wind than in any of the Chesapeake readings for the same time period by at least 5-10 mph

Real time wind & weather report Philadelphia Int. Airport 2013-05-25 - Windfinder

Or even the Port of Wilmington

Real time wind & weather report Port of Wilmington 2013-05-25 - Windfinder

Let me know,

Dave


QUOTE=TakeFive;1036960]My point was simple. We are not very far away, but on Sunday the weather was very different at our two different locations based on the objective weather data.

I also acknowledged that most people would prefer sailing on the Chesapeake. No need to pile on.

That's it. No debate intended. I would prefer not to start one.

End of story.[/QUOTE]
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  #87  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Sorry didn't mean to pile on.

Rick, Certainly no argument intended, but a discussion will occur if you make a claim which is not substantiated by direct observation of other observers including myself ( my wind indicator was pegged over 20 most of the day) , then come to a sweeping inaccurate conclusion. I am not trying to argue just want to make sure that accurate FACTS are presented.

I am challenging your data. It is inaccurate. Not sure what you are reading as the historical data for the day. Patapsco Buoy which as I said is an inaccurate way to judge winds on the Bay as its sits at the end of a river.

Is it possible you are reading the NOAA buoy observation for the day measured in m/s historical data? Please let me know if I am in error or looking at the wrong observations here.

Here are the SAR observations from the Patapsco buoy which show 12-17 knots

Buoy Center - Station 44043 - Patapsco, MD

Or the wind speed graphs which show wind speed at 20+ mph all day

Real time wind & weather report Patapsco Buoy 2013-05-25 - Windfinder

Here are the SAR observations from the Key Bridge readings which are like your Delaware River

Buoy Center - Station FSKM2 - 8574728 - Francis Scott Key Bridge, MD

Or the wind speed graphs which show wind speed at 18-25 mph all day

Real time wind & weather report Francis Scott Key Bridge 2013-05-25 - Windfinder
note graph shows winds between

And here are the SAR readings from the Tolchester which is in the open Bay and shows 14-6 knots

Or the wind speed graphs which show wind speed at 18-20+ mph all day

Real time wind & weather report Tolchester Beach 2013-05-25 - Windfinder

BTW all graphs show gusts in excess of 30 mph on Saturday


Here is the data from International Airport where you were sailing Sunday in mph . It shows less wind than in any of the Chesapeake readings for the same time period by at least 5-10 mph

Real time wind & weather report Philadelphia Int. Airport 2013-05-25 - Windfinder

Or even the Port of Wilmington

Real time wind & weather report Port of Wilmington 2013-05-25 - Windfinder

Let me know,

Dave
You have the wrong day. Your data are for Saturday, May 25, the day that you bailed on going out because it was so gusty. I was talking about Sunday, May 26, the day that everyone was saying was so great on the Bay, as demonstrated by the Windalert data that I cited.

It is not worth wasting any more of my time over something so trivial. If you disagree with me, that's fine. The rest of you are free to continue discussing if you want.
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  #88  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
You have the wrong day. Your data are for Saturday, May 25, the day that you bailed on going out because it was so gusty. I was talking about Sunday, May 26, the day that everyone was saying was so great on the Bay, as demonstrated by the Windalert data that I cited.

It is not worth wasting any more of my time over something so trivial. If you disagree with me, that's fine. The rest of you are free to continue discussing if you want.
Thanks for showing me my error.
If I may let me correct it with the correct data

Patapsco Buoy- 15 mph with gusts to 20 for the part most of us were sailing (11 AM-6PM)

Real time wind & weather report Patapsco Buoy 2013-05-26 - Windfinder

Key Bridge for same time period 15-20 mph with gusts to 25

International Airport where you were, 15-20 with gusts to 25
Real time wind & weather report Philadelphia Int. Airport 2013-05-26 - Windfinder

This CORRECT data would show virtually the same wind speeds which make sense as the low pressure system which added to the advancing high was headed up the coast that day. The sustained winds would have retained longer in the Philly area, as evidenced by your wind Sunday

However the facts show that we had the same wind virtually so some assumption that you have

Quote:
Interesting that you guys rave about how great Sunday was on the Bay. I looked up the wind data for that day, and while Patapsco buoy saw 10-15 mph sustained and gusts typically 3 mph higher (peak gust of 22 mph at 1 pm),-Take Five
Your data is incorrect

Quote:
I've compared the wind data at the two different locations in past years, and we do seem to get a steadier, more predictable mid-summer breeze than you guys do down on the Bay.
The data does not prove his to be true at all.

Quote:
It is not worth wasting any more of my time over something so trivial.-TakeFive
It is you who brought this up so now its trivial after you have been responded to by a number of us including empirical data ( yours was incorrect despite me using the wrong date initially) as well as personal observations.

The ONLY reason I am rehashing this is to correct a false assumption following your incorrect data posted for any newcomer or someone not keeping a boat on the Chesapeake and thinking they'd get better winds on the Delaware from Essington to Philly. Your landlocked area vs an area with wind created by the volume of the Chesapeake is one factor for better wind. You wont always be so fortunate to have a low moving up the coast to add to your winds as occurred Sat, Sun and Monday.

I am sure you had a great day sailing up and back to Philly with great winds something you probably rarely get the opportunity to do the same day do to the currents and the lack of good wind. It was you however who was somewhat snarky in your post as follows which evoked reaction. If you care not to take that responsibility its ok

Quote:
Interesting that you guys rave about how great Sunday was on the Bay. I looked up the wind data for that day, and while Patapsco buoy saw 10-15 mph sustained and gusts typically 3 mph higher (peak gust of 22 mph at 1 pm),
The posters who followed saw far greater winds than you stated and the buoy data corroborates. Most of us would never have raved about the day , Sunday had it been 10-15 with gusts to 18. That's a frequent occurrence on the Chesapeake.

As the low moved up the coast so sis the wind so you received the sustained wind longer than we did...that doesn't equate to the Delaware have more consistent wind than the Chesapeake. Nothing further form the truth. Now all the false data has been cleared up the trivial stuff can be put to rest.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 05-29-2013 at 05:42 PM.
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  #89  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

Nothing snarky intended. 10-15 with virtually no gusts is great conditions - enough for any normal monohull to get to hull speed. Gusts to 30+ is less than optimal IMO.

I meant exactly what I said, no matter how hard you try to imply otherwise. Why is this trivia so important?
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Old 06-02-2013
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Re: 2013 Sailing Season

We unfortunately didn't leave the slip this weekend although it looks like it would have been a nice weekend to be out. Instead, it was a weekend of boat projects.

I started out by test fitting the propane locker I'm building to fit inside our starboard lazarette. I had mocked it up out of cardboard but wanted to do a final test with the real thing which is made out of half inch plywood glassed on the inside. It fit! Now I can keep going with the finishing touches and painting.

Next I rebuilt the engine sea water pump. It had been dripping starting slowly last season and accelerating this year. It was a bit intimidating but once I got it apart the process went smoothly. The old rubber seal was visibly in pretty bad shape so I hope this does the trick.

From that I moved on to installation of a bow roller. The boat never had one so I had to start by moving the chocks aft a bit. Did that yesterday and then today drilled for the bolts, potted the holes, and climbed all the way up in the forepeak to bolt it down (ugh). A few kinks to work out with the way the anchor rides in the roller but I think it's going to be worth its weight in gold in retrieving our 35lb anchor.

Last but not least, I've been suspicious of our mixing elbow for a while and wanted to inspect it. I took the whole lower elbow/mixing elbow assembly off the engine and it clearly is time for a new mixing elbow. The lower elbow is fine. I sprayed the coupling with blaster and let it sit for 24 hours. Even after that, I still had to put the old elbow in a vice and screw my pipe wrench to a 5 foot long 2x4 to get enough leverage to move it. It's apart now and a new elbow will be ordered first thing tomorrow. Now I know a Yanmar elbow can last about 8 seasons of Chesapeake motoring (YMMV).

A long two days of work but a lot of items crossed off the list for summer cruising!
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