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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Destinations > Chesapeake / Central US east coast
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2012
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Denise,

I am a member of a club in and around Philadelphia Metro area. The river itself is not the issue. It is the fact no one takes pride in producing a really good marina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
Since you asked;

"thoughts"

You made a blanket statement without really asking first.

Frankly, it's rather rude to those of us that really try to help Delaware river sailors find meaning in having a boat on the river. I'm one of those people. There are others.

"Delaware River Recreational Sailors" is the group I'm trying to grow. Membership of 3 so far LOL Uh, No it's not listed anywhere. There is a get together planned for May 5th at Delaware City.

Join a Yacht club, 30 of em all up and down the river. DRYL.org
Marina's;
Curtains, nice, Neshaminy State Marina, ok; Riverside, Winters and snug harbor are good, silting is a problem everywhere. Phila is $$ and silted in as you know. Essington has some really nice clubs and marina's.

It's not great, but those of us on the river try to make the best of it! From my house, on the water with sails up; I can do in way less then an hour, A Big PLUS!

There are lots of activities sailing related, races are abundant also. There are 20, 30ft and larger sailboats in my YC alone, most of them race every week.

Amenities may be lacking.. but aren't they for those not out on the water?
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2012
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Hi Caleb,

I was actually advocating for the NYC area. I was using it as an example to contrast it with Philadelphia. I think the NYC area has a lot of nice marinas from the Hudson to Sandy Hook and western Long Island Sound.

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Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
Tactfully put deniseO30.
NY Harbor may also have been slighted, not that I particularly care. In NY Harbor there is Liberty Landing Marina which I have never hear anyone complain about the amenities (prices, yes). Almost anything around NYC or Philly will be $$$$.
NY Harbor is not really my cup of tea because of boat traffic, currents and lack of natural setting which is why we keep our boat up by the Tappan Zee where it is naturally scenic and there is a lot more river where you can sail.
Sandy Hook has at least 1 club and there is even the Raritan Yacht Club. You might be surprised when you start looking.
Happy hunting!
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
I have a couple problems with the premise of your question.

How exactly do you define "nice"? From your post, it seems like you define it by restaurants and pools.

Marinas anywhere will only survive if there is sufficient demand for their amenities for them to charge enough to cover their cost (with an acceptable profit margin). So why don't marinas in Philly and NYC have these amenities? Probably because there are already so many nice restaurants and pools nearby! There is no demand for "country club" marinas in this area.

Like Ulladh and Denise, I define "nice" as 1) quick to get to from my home; 2) well enough maintained that I can trust my boat will not get beat up, and I can practice good hygiene on shore; 3) fair value for my money; 4) nice neighbors. I pay $1053/year for in-season slip (including electric and water, and I could pay only $975 if I wanted a shorter finger pier) and $300/year for winter storage on the hard. I dare anyone to find a better value.

Personally, I don't care about restaurant, pool, or fancy amenities. I want to sail and go home, not hang around the docks. Although, I do walk around and say hello to people when I'm there.

If you want a swimming pool, you can consider Corinthian YC in Essington, which has pool, huge clubhouse, and even skeet shooting. You'll need to rent a mooring ball from them. Prepare to pay $$$. And wear your ascot. lol

If you want dredging, they're doing just that at West End Boat Club, where I am a member. Rates are similar to what Ulladh pays, and it's a very friendly place.

Riverside and Winters both seem to be very well maintained marinas with good (but not fancy) facilities.

The Delaware River is the Delaware River - strong currents, 6-8' tidal swing, narrow tacking space, but very close and convenient. No marina is going to change that.

So what, exactly, are you looking for?
Full service yard, slips with at least 6' of water a MLW, Full Chandelry, and restaurants. NYC area marinas quite often have most if not all of those amentities. I was trying to convey the Philadelphia marina owners could learn a lot from the marinas up in the NYC area.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2012
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The Philadelphia Marine Center is AWFUL! They don't dredge their slips! I see sailboats on the hard 1.5 hours either side of low tide, their ships store is almost non-existent, their gas/diesel station is old and never works well, and on top of that their service stinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulladh View Post
Philadelphia Marine Center has deeper slips closer to the wake protection and a whole neighborhood of great restaurants in Northern Liberties just across Delaware Ave, or a short few blocks to Yards Brewery, Sugarhouse Casino and more great restaurants in Fishtown.

Penns Landing, where management gives the impression they would rather not have boats in their marina is a short few blocks to Old City and even more restaurants. Zahav on Dock Street near 3rd is amazing and reasonably priced.

Take a transient slip at Phila Marine Center and enjoy the nightlife.
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2012
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Yam
Perhaps our definition of AWFUL differs. The Phila marine Center does get dredged, maybe not as often as we would all like. I have only been a transient there, probably not long enough to comment on the service but I did not experience any problems.

This is a noisy marina, clubs, Dave and Busters, traffic on Delaware Ave and Ben Franklin Bridge, my experience is that it was more noise than Essington under the PHL take off and landing.

But it is a great location to take advantage of center city and the historic district, and it just feels cool to sail by the huddled masses along the Phila bulkhead.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2012
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I know some members of Liberty Sailing Club. They all say they can't get out of their slips 1.5 hours either side of low tide. That is 3-hours they can't leave or enter their slips, twice a day--no way to run a marina.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulladh View Post
Yam
Perhaps our definition of AWFUL differs. The Phila marine Center does get dredged, maybe not as often as we would all like. I have only been a transient there, probably not long enough to comment on the service but I did not experience any problems.

This is a noisy marina, clubs, Dave and Busters, traffic on Delaware Ave and Ben Franklin Bridge, my experience is that it was more noise than Essington under the PHL take off and landing.

But it is a great location to take advantage of center city and the historic district, and it just feels cool to sail by the huddled masses along the Phila bulkhead.
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
Full service yard, slips with at least 6' of water a MLW, Full Chandelry, and restaurants. NYC area marinas quite often have most if not all of those amentities. I was trying to convey the Philadelphia marina owners could learn a lot from the marinas up in the NYC area.
I'm no expert in this, and not trying to make excuses, but intuitively I think the density of wealth in NYC is a lot higher than Philly, so you get the megayachts there to pump up the local marine economy.

So what's wrong with Winter's/Riverside (adjacent marinas under same ownership)? Between the two of them they have a full service yard, chandlery, restaurant (with others a short walk away), 6' depth on some or most docks.

I'm not sure the issue with the Philly area is lack of pride. It's lack of demand and dollars. Pride doesn't pay the bills. The supply and demand curves have to cross, and I'm not sure they would for a high-end marina in the Philly area.
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  #18  
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There have been attempts at more up-market marinas in Philadelphia but none have got very far.

The Waterfront Square development had a marina in its original plan, and the marina is still in the condo documents, but was never built.

The Sugar House Casino proposal included a marina, but lots of scaling back including no marina.

The Foxwoods Casino that did not get as far as ground breaking for many reasons also included a marina.

Marinas at high property value locations cannot stand alone financially and need to be part of a value added feature to a larger development. The Penn-Praxis master plan for the central waterfront includes more marina locations, but without investors in major waterfront developments they are unlikely to happen.
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  #19  
Old 02-23-2012
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Yam, if Philly had something as nice as, or nicer than, anything in NYC,* it would throw off the whole Bos-Wash corridor equilibrium, altering the Masonic balance the Founding Fathers carefully designed, causing stock markets to plummet and possibly the entire east Coast to crack off and float toward Bermuda.

Now, you wouldn't want that, would you?








* The only exception to the Bos-Wash Equilibrium Theory is the cheesesteak. Each city is allowed to have one superior indigenous food stuff. Washington still has not found one.
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  #20  
Old 02-23-2012
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I'd also guess, that most of the river located Marina type places when built were after the rather lucrative motor yacht business. Which of course has died off considerably.
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