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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Destinations > Chesapeake / Central US east coast
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  #51  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

Clues are expensive. And they often cause brain damage while passing from one ear to the other. Many folks just don't want to have a clue. And with proper modern medications, there's no reason that they need to have one anyway.
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  #52  
Old 03-07-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
Well, based on this article, marinas on the Delaware River don't have a clue.

Marina challenge: Do more with less
I don't see how this article proves what you claim. It says to know your customers, because in this down economy nobody is going to pay for any more than they have to.

OTOH, most of the things that you've suggested on this thread would cost A LOT of money (especially dredging).

I look at it this way: In this economy, just staying in business takes quite a bit of business savvy, especially for someone in a business as discretionary as recreational boating. Calling the marina operators that have managed to stay in business "clueless" makes you look clueless.

I'd love to have a nice marina nearby, with green space, a restaurant, chandlery, etc. I'd be willing to pay somewhat more than I'm paying now for it (but I think I may be an exception). But I would not invest my own money in such a venture, because something tells me that the local market would not support it.
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  #53  
Old 03-07-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

By the way, have you looked at Fox's Grove, where Ulladh keeps his boat? Although it does not meet every one of your criteria, I would call it a "nice marina." I'd consider it myself, but the vacancy rate is so high at Anchorage that I can tie off in a double slip and avoid any fender abrasion on my hull. Also, I've gotten to like the neighbors that I have (although they're relatively few and far between).
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Formerly posted as "RhythmDoctor"
1998 Catalina 250WK Take Five (at Anchorage Marina, Essington, on the Delaware River)
1991 15' Trophy (Lake Wallenpaupack)
1985 14' Phantom (Lake Wallenpaupack)
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  #54  
Old 03-08-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

For a marina, i do not see dredging as a "luxury". I would argue it is a necessity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
I don't see how this article proves what you claim. It says to know your customers, because in this down economy nobody is going to pay for any more than they have to.

OTOH, most of the things that you've suggested on this thread would cost A LOT of money (especially dredging).

I look at it this way: In this economy, just staying in business takes quite a bit of business savvy, especially for someone in a business as discretionary as recreational boating. Calling the marina operators that have managed to stay in business "clueless" makes you look clueless.

I'd love to have a nice marina nearby, with green space, a restaurant, chandlery, etc. I'd be willing to pay somewhat more than I'm paying now for it (but I think I may be an exception). But I would not invest my own money in such a venture, because something tells me that the local market would not support it.
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  #55  
Old 03-08-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

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Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
For a marina, i do not see dredging as a "luxury". I would argue it is a necessity.
Given the extraordinarily high cost of dredging, difficult permitting process, and substantial risk of trying to overcome the forces of nature, most smart investors would prefer to find somewhere else to build a marina. You can buy a lot of land and build a very nice facility for the cost of a single dredging - and you'd have to repeat the dredging every few years, vs. the one-time costs of building elsewhere.

Fox's Grove has plenty of water, friendly neighbors, and a nice party pavilion. What's wrong with it?
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Formerly posted as "RhythmDoctor"
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1991 15' Trophy (Lake Wallenpaupack)
1985 14' Phantom (Lake Wallenpaupack)
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  #56  
Old 03-08-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulladh View Post
We have free ice and a clean bathroom, what more would anyone want.
Enough depth to get out of a slip and into the river at low tide.
As I mentioned above, Fox's Grove has that.
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Formerly posted as "RhythmDoctor"
1998 Catalina 250WK Take Five (at Anchorage Marina, Essington, on the Delaware River)
1991 15' Trophy (Lake Wallenpaupack)
1985 14' Phantom (Lake Wallenpaupack)
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  #57  
Old 03-09-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

I get the feeling that we will not convince Yam that the Delaware river has any place he would find acceptable.

I and I am sure most Delaware River boaters, yes power and sail, keep their boats at local marinas for ease of use without long distance travel.

If I lived midway between the Delaware river and the Chesapeake, I would probably keep the boat on the Chesapeake.

My marina, Fox Grove Fox Grove Marina is a good base for me;
- 20 mins from NW Philadelphia in light traffic outside rush hour (29 mins this Thursday afternoon including traffic lane reductions on one of the bridges),
- Widest section of the Pennsylvania section of the river for last minute sailing, day sail to the Delaware or Chesapeake Bays.
- Deep water slips, 19ft+ at low tide, no dredging needed.

And did I mention free ice.
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  #58  
Old 03-09-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
Hi folks,

I sail alot on the Delaware River and in NY Harbor. There seems to be a dearth of nice marinas in NY Harbor in NYC as well as NJ. Some have some really nice restaurants, and some of them even have pools.

Why does the Philadelphia area have such crappy marinas. Helk, the Philadelphia Marine Center doesn't even dredge their marina.

I tell you. The boating experience on the Delaware River is getting worse and worse. I am thinking about moving my boat to the Sandy Hook area or Jersey City area. Yes I'll pay more but at least I'll get services and amenities.

Any thoughts on this?
having grown up in Delaware County and having spent my summers as a youth on the Chesapeake Bay I believe the answer can be summed up in two sentences:

1) because the Delaware River and it's shoreline in this area is all industrial and ugly
2) The Chesapeake Bay is only a 45 minute drive from there and is beautiful.

Why eat hamburger when you have have filet mignon?

ps: there's not a single decent marina until you get to the C&D Canal.

My step son has worked as a dock hand at the Chesapeake Inn for the last three summers while he was in school and folks coming from the Delaware to the C&D Canal think they've landed in an Oasis compared to the Delaware.

Last edited by administrator; 03-09-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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  #59  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

ok--I'll buy that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by administrator View Post
having grown up in Delaware County and having spent my summers as a youth on the Chesapeake Bay I believe the answer can be summed up in two sentences:

1) because the Delaware River and it's shoreline in this area is all industrial and ugly
2) The Chesapeake Bay is only a 45 minute drive from there and is beautiful.

Why eat hamburger when you have have filet mignon?

ps: there's not a single decent marina until you get to the C&D Canal.

My step son has worked as a dock hand at the Chesapeake Inn for the last three summers while he was in school and folks coming from the Delaware to the C&D Canal think they've landed in an Oasis compared to the Delaware.
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  #60  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: Not one nice Marina from Trenton to Essington, Pa

Quote:
Originally Posted by administrator View Post
having grown up in Delaware County and having spent my summers as a youth on the Chesapeake Bay I believe the answer can be summed up in two sentences:

1) because the Delaware River and it's shoreline in this area is all industrial and ugly
2) The Chesapeake Bay is only a 45 minute drive from there and is beautiful.

Why eat hamburger when you have have filet mignon?

ps: there's not a single decent marina until you get to the C&D Canal.

My step son has worked as a dock hand at the Chesapeake Inn for the last three summers while he was in school and folks coming from the Delaware to the C&D Canal think they've landed in an Oasis compared to the Delaware.
I don't think any of the Delaware River sailors have seriously disputed this. We all agree that about the only compelling reason to sail the Delaware River is the convenience of its location relative to where we live. And that lack of attractiveness is exactly why a high end marina would not be financially viable on the Delaware.

However, I do have a couple of factual disputes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by administrator View Post
......the Delaware River and it's shoreline in this area is all industrial and ugly...
There is no denying that there is a substantial amount of industry along the Delaware. To suggest that it is "all ugly" strikes me as a "glass half empty" attitude. There are some interesting things going on along the river, and guests on my boat have often found them fascinating to see. You might not see many ospreys landing, but you might see a V-22 Osprey (and other amphibious aircraft) landing. There are a couple of interesting towns and other scenery along the river, and Ulladh has posted pictures of them in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by administrator View Post
......The Chesapeake Bay is only a 45 minute drive from there...
From where I live in the middle of Delaware County, it's 1 hour (much more in traffic) to Northeast River Yacht Club. That's about the closest tributary of the bay, and it's not really "bay sailing." There's a very limited sailable range, and a long, narrow motor down to Turkey Point. So you go looking for better sailing, and much like with sailboats, you get "15 minute-itis." As you cross off the various North Cheaspeake locations because of skinny water and/or too long a motor to get to open water, you pretty much end up at Still Pond, Worton Creek, or Rock Hall (second to Annapolis as a sailing mecca). Now you're in the middle of some fantastic sailing. But you're 2 hours away! So your 45 minute comment kind of misrepresents the issue of driving distance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by administrator View Post
...Why eat hamburger when you have have filet mignon?...
If I had to drive 1-2 hours every time I wanted filet mignon, I'd settle for hamburger at home most of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by administrator View Post
...ps: there's not a single decent marina until you get to the C&D Canal...
As made repeatedly clear here, this all depends on how you define "decent." Put it this way: When the day comes that my lifestyle allows me sufficient time to move my boat down to the bay, I would be perfectly happy if I found a marina there that was comparable to West End, Fox's Grove, or Anchorage. So for me personally, the Delaware River's well known shortcomings have little to do with the quality of the marinas.
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Formerly posted as "RhythmDoctor"
1998 Catalina 250WK Take Five (at Anchorage Marina, Essington, on the Delaware River)
1991 15' Trophy (Lake Wallenpaupack)
1985 14' Phantom (Lake Wallenpaupack)
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