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Bay sailor needed - Deale to Quantico, VA

5K views 38 replies 12 participants last post by  BayWindRider 
#1 ·
All,

I have a Catalina 27 currently sitting in Deale, MD. I’m planning to sail from Deale to the Potomac in Quantico, VA from 27-30 April. Unfortunately, my buddy who was going with me has to go to training for work. I’m wondering if anyone would like to assist me with moving the boat. Here’s a little info:

Boat: 1987 Catalina 27 Tall Rig in working condition (last survey 2012), no frills, but has an Autohelm ST4000, bimini, and an inboard Universal Model 18
Dates: 27-30 April 13
Expected Stop-overs: Solomon’s (Marina), Smith Creek (Marina), Colonial Beach, VA (Marina)
Owner Experience: Roughly two years experience with one season on the boat. I have also completed ASA 101 and 103.

I’m pretty laid back and easy-going, and would like to have a similar-minded person if possible. Of course, no druggies or persons with wants or warrants. Since I’m in law enforcement, it might not work out. ;) Prior sailing experience is desired, but having some working knowledge is ok. I can arrange transportation from Quantico back to Deale after the trip if needed. I’ll buy enough food for lunch and snacks, but will also pay for dinner when at the marina.

**I posted here instead of Crew Wanted since the majority of the people who linger here are Bay sailors.**

PM me if interested.
 
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#2 ·
What is the condition of the boat? You listed the gear, but what is it's status?

Standing/Running rigging in safe condition?
Universal engine safe and clear for duty?
Seacocks and hoses checked and safe?
Sails in useable condition?
VHF, GPS and navigation lights functional?
Got all the necessary personal safety gear?

Do you intend to sail where possible or are you looking to motor most of the way? (The answer is not as obvious as you might think)
 
#3 ·
This is why I posted working condition. If someone wants to meet up to see the boat prior to the trip that can be arranged. However, if you just wanted to know specifics:

- The running and standing rigging are in serviceable condition. Although, I'm going to have someone inspect and possibly tune the rigging while it's still on the bay (cheaper than Potomac).
- Chain plates have been rebedded in the last couple years.
- Universal engine has low hours (around 460) and works like a champ.
- Seacocks inspected during 2012 survey, winterized this fall, and function properly.
- Mainsail and two genoas are in great shape.
- Comfort: Manual marine head and macerator pump operable. No oven, but I have a Magna grill. No hot water tank, but will likely stay at marinas with showers.
- Electronics: ICOM VHF radio with remote, Raymarine TackTick Multi and wind mounted in the cockpit, Autohelm, Garmin handheld chart plotter mounted on the pedestal, and spot messenger for emergency use.
- Safety: I have all the required USCG gear. 5 Type II adult vests, 4 Type II Cabelas low-profile adult vests, 1 Type IV throwable cushion, 1 Type IV throwable lifesling, 2 Type BC, Size 1 (2-1/2 lb), mounted and charged; 1 Type BC, Size 1 (5 lb), mounted and charged, horn, binos, flares, CO detector, oil and trash card posted, and fluke anchor. Navigational lights and deck light are operational. I also have unlimited towing from BoatUS (not-affiliated) ;)

I intend to sail to Colonial Beach, but this is weather permitting. I'll likely motor from Colonial Beach to Quantico or at least after the bend in the Potomac. I've mapped out the target destinations based on motoring the entire way.
 
#5 ·
It's a little too far for me, unfortunately, or I'd give it strong consideration.

In looking at your plans, I'm surprised by how short you're keeping your days. It seems to me that you could do this in 3 days, rather than 4, which would likely get you more crew.

Now, mind you, I have less over all experience than you, so take my comments with a grain of salt. But I'd consider leaving that first day and pushing on to St. Mary's (60 miles), rather than Solomons. Colonial Beach should be reachable easily the 2nd day (32 miles (or push on to Aquia if the conditions are good)), and then on to Quantico (33 miles from Colonial Beach). Even if you stop in Solomons, rather than St. Mary's, it seems to me that Colonial Beach should be reachable the 2nd day.

One thing to consider as you're planning this is the time it will take to get your crew from Quantico back to Deale, and then for you to get home from Deale. If your last day ends late, you'll have a tired crew who may still have a decent drive to get home, and who have to get up for work the next day. I'd suggest pushing hard the first day, and if you can, the 2nd, and then having a nice, short day for the last day so you can handle the rest of the logistics. But that's just my suggestion.
 
#6 ·
I would love to, but I have no radar or AIS on the boat. Although, there is supposed to be a full moon the week prior and in the 80th percentile during the trip... That would be nice sailing.

Did you use radar or AIS on your offshore to RI?
 
#11 ·
Did you use radar or AIS on your offshore to RI?
RI is my next trip. I have done the Delmarva coast 4 times, 3 time solo and I do not have radar or AIS or a liferaft or lines led aft or a $300 harness, or any of the totally unnecessary and expensive convenience items recommended by some of the members here (some of whom have never left the Bay). Nor will I likely buy any of them.

I did buy an ACR PLB for my next trip. I do use a nice Garmin 76cx GPS and papercharts and a VHF, speedo, depth sounder and a compass, which is more than sufficient. I also use a autopilot and a solar panel to charge my batteries. I do not hesitate to motor if I can't consistently make 4 knots sailing.

The first time I did the Delmarva coast trip on a P26 I used a paper chart, a compass and a depth finder and I did fine. My autopilot was a bungee cord on the tiller.
 
#7 ·
AIS will only track the big ships and maybe the tugs.

Radar more important IMHO. Definitely a three day even two doable trip. I also agree with the first day push to the Potomac, I would do Glebe / Coan River vs. Smith which is extra distance. That's 60 miles or 12 hours on an average 5 knot day. Of course unless you have good wind directionally this becomes a Solomon's day as you'd be tacking.

Seeing as you fight the current in the Potomac I can understand breaking that trip up into 2 days.
 
#8 ·
Ok, I don't want to downplay the value of radar and AIS but really, you do not need those tools to sail a small boat down the Bay, at night.

I've done the Eastport to Solomons race, and Governor's Cup for the last two years, all overnight races on my boat, and boats with no radar or AIS.

Just keep your head on a swivel, know your ship lighting configurations (tug with tow, anyone?), and have a good GPS and VHF with some paper charts or a chart book as a backup.
 
#17 ·
Just keep your head on a swivel, know your ship lighting configurations (tug with tow, anyone?).
Bueller, Bueller? Navigation Rules Online

Rule 24 - 2 masthead lights, a towing light above the stern light or 3 vertical lights or 2 vessels displaying lights. Any time you see a vessel displaying vertical lights or 2 vessels close to each other in a line, stay away!
 
#9 · (Edited)
I always plan for the worst possible conditions, but I would push to Smith Creek or beyond on the first day weather permitting. The worst case scenario would be Solomon’s, but I would head towards Smith Creek/St. Mary’s or beyond as long as the mouth of the Potomac isn’t crazy. I’m sure it can get pretty nasty with an easterly wind at high tide or vice versa. I will have to time it right based on the conditions. If I get a crew member I’m more than willing to alter the plan and condense it accordingly (also considering their drive from Deale).

If I have to do everything single handed I will likely keep the current plan. Heck, I might as well check out Solomon’s and St. Mary’s during the late afternoon. That way I won’t get burned out.

If there isn’t overcast the moon should be brilliant that weekend. It’s been a while since I’ve sailed at night, but that would be a wonderful sight on the Potomac. Since I have a newborn, I’ve learned how to operate with little sleep! Lol

Thanks everyone for your comments.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I second Bubblehead's comment. You do not need radar or AIS, either on the Bay or offshore. Traditional watchkeeping has worked for centuries.

If you go solo, it makes sense to anchor. With crew, I would keep going, leaving after work on the first day, if you arrive during the night the next day or two, sleep on the boat. It all depends on how much motoring you want to do. Otherwise, who wants to anchor?

I too raced overnight on the Solomon's Invitational, back in 1993. Soaking wet on the rail, without any sleep, I decided I liked cruising better. But, you can make the trip comfortably with 4 hr. shifts. This is a good way for you and some other eager Sailnetters to get some night sailing experience. In the Spring, you should actually have some wind for a change.

We read these ridiculous posts from newbies who want to buy their first boat and sail across the Atlantic immediately and they do not even realize that will mean sailing at night and keeping watch. You have to have your sail handling and boat handling skills down pat to sail well at night - it is a good exercise. Hard to get into too much trouble on the Bay, as long as you stay out of the way of the ships and don't hit any stationary objects.

The fuel loading dock just north of Cove Point is amazing when lit up at night and you will be able to see flying objects leaving from Patuxent air station, as I did when I arrived in Solomons Island last summer at 1 a.m. Should be a fun trip!
 
#12 ·
You don't really need the radar or AIS to sail at night on the Bay. Very few have AIS and very few use the radar a lot on the Bay. I have both and rarely use except in fog or at night when in a shipping area to identify a boat. For the most part I am not in shipping lanes.

James you certainly can do the RI trip easily. You've gained a great deal of experience doing the Delmarva, but could have done the coastal stuff as well. I have followed your trips closely and picked up a few pointers/ tips from them.

Anyone can really sail up the coast. 20 years ago when I lived in south NJ and we went up to MV or the LI Sound there was no on board electronics to speak of compared to today and it all was done with compass, dead reckoning, paper charts etc. You still should be able to do it with this method in spite of having the new found electronics IMHO

RI is my next trip. I have done the Delmarva coast 4 times, 3 time solo and I do not have radar or AIS or a life raft or lines led aft or a $300 harness, or any of the totally unnecessary and expensive convenience items recommended by some of the members here (some of whom have never left the Bay). Nor will I likely buy any of them.
While I appreciate your opinions and traditional sailing viewpoint here, and have done this trip sans the stuff above, I would say that the word unnecessary is not the word I would use to describe them.

Having been caught in thick fog for 2 days which is common in RI, I would tell you radar is comforting to have. Having done NYC at night it is the same. Lines led back, life raft Radar, AIS, are not " essential" items, however I would not characterize them as convenience items either.

Sailing at night or along the coast may be a little riskier in some senses so I look at them as helping with risk avoidance. For instance it is less risky to have radar on a foggy night or a night crossing shipping lanes of New York harbor than not. It is less risky to be able to put your sails up, reef or douse from the cockpit than going above when single handing. The equipment is non essential, but helpful.

You can get from here to Florida without air-conditioning in your car. Air conditioning is a convenience and may keep you fresher and more alert, but it isn't a necessity.

Everyone chooses what you want as far ask risk minimizers and avoidance and conveniences. To term them unnecessary isn't useful. It doesn't make you a better sailor whether you have them or not. It also shouldn't deter you from trying new adventures.

Also and somewhat importantly my wife sails on our trips too and has the helm about 1/3 of the time and some of the conveniences make her more comfortable in "captaining" the boat from the helm. It is essential to keep her happy and comfortable and free of fears.

Of all the electronic conveniences I have added I would say radar and the Chart plotter in conjunction with prior techniques and knowledge have helped with safety. Should they get knocked out...I will easily survive....but like air conditioning...why just survive:):):)
 
#13 ·
The key to this trip will be hot and cold beverage provisions and ice, not AIS or radar:

A nice spring water for regular hydration.
French press and a great coffee for caffeine.
Snapple natural ice tea mix with black tea, raspberry and peach for more caffeine.
Craft beer on ice for afternoon - Sam Adams, Blue Moon, or Sierra Nevada.
Schnapps or Cherry Herring liquor for the night watch.

Don't forget to bring some flashlights with red lens also.
 
#15 ·
I agree you ought to skip Solomon's and go all the way to Smith Creek or St. Mary's the first day. Since wind usually comes down the Potomac from the NW, plan on a lot of motoring going upriver. This trip is doable in 2 long days, but maybe 3 would be better.
 
#16 ·
I've done this trip any number of times -- usually between Annapolis and DC.

There is a significant difference between a cruise and delivery. My thoughts are from the perspective of a delivery skipper. Move the boat, don't break anything.

Radar would be nice - not required.

AIS would be nicer yet - not required.

Thoughts in no particular order --

Sailing at night is easier than during the day. Almost everything you care about has a light on it and the biggest risks--recreational sailors--are pretty much not out. Good charts and/or a chart plotter make a big difference. Your best tools are your eyes, your depth sounder, your ears, and your nose. Eyes are obvious. If your depth sounder says the water depth is different than the charts say for where you think you are then you aren't where you think you are. Fish traps attract birds - birds make noise - you can hear the birds. Fish traps often smell also. Pay attention to your senses at night.

Single-handed I'd get on the boat as early as possible Friday evening and go to bed. I'd get up early and push straight through as far as I can, probably Nomini Bay or Cobb Island. Of the stops noted I think Solomon's is too short (not to say I haven't done that on owner-aboard deliveries). St Mary's is too far up the river and a waste of nearly three hours on your boat. Smith Creek is fine.

Two-up with qualified crew I'd sail straight through, as was suggested before. Marinas are a time waste unless you need fuel. The check-in and check-out process eats time that you aren't moving the boat.

Make sure you have enough fuel onboard to make the whole run non-stop. You should be able to make this whole run in 30 hours or less - probably a lot less unless you have Southerlies all the way down the Bay.

Do you have binoculars?

Different people have different sleep cycles and needs. Don't push yourself. Still, once you get going as long as you have meals set up for yourself it's pretty easy to keep going.

Standing watches can be pretty cool. Recognize that the most important thing about watches is for the off-watch to be rested.

I'm in Annapolis. If you want to drop by and walk through charts and talk about bailouts and watch schedules and meal plans I'm happy to do that. First round is on you. *grin*
 
#18 ·
This is slightly off topic, but given the discussion of night sailing, I thought I'd share. My surveyor and I went to lunch the day of my survey, and we went to one of his local hang-outs. There were 4 or 5 other captains there that day, and they were all telling stories. These were all tug boat captains, and one guy said that they were bringing several very long sections of pipe up the Chesapeake a few years ago as part of some project. The pipe was so long, it had to actually be suspended between two barges. The pipe sat low, and was essentially partially submerged. Late one evening, as they were making their way North, they hear an engine, and it's LOUD. It's clear that this guy is going very fast. They see him as he comes around a bend, and he's clearly on a course to cut directly across their path. The pull out a spotlight and shine it on both barges, and on the pipe between the barges. The guy keeps coming. The try to hail him on the radio while they shine the spotlight again. The guy keeps coming. They honk the horn, call on the radio, shine the spotlight. Still coming. They do this 3 or 4 times, and yet they watch as the guy continues to aim right for the space between the barges. As the boat gets close, they can actually hear music blasting above the sound of the engine, and hear the driver and his friend excitedly whooping and hollering. Then they hear a scraping sound, and they hear the prop begin to rotate in the air, followed by a splash. They hear cursing, and the boat slows some for a few seconds, then speeds right back up again and goes on its way, never to be heard from.

Sorry...long story...but it was meant to reinforce JamesWilson29's point - stay away from 2 vessels close to each other! You never know what's between them. Also, operating a vessel at night while under the influence isn't really the best of ideas. And combining the two together is pretty much a recipe for at least a new bottom job.
 
#25 ·
I can believe the guy tried to shot the gap between two barges. It sounds like Darwinism at work… Well, mixed with a good dose of stupid. However, nothing beats the YouTube video posted last month of the guy crossing in front of a tanker…


I'm still relatively new to sailing, but I've come to appreciate the use of radar on other people's boats. There's nothing like seeing a squall coming at night with plenty of time to react. When I get a bigger boat and start extending my cruising grounds I'll make sure radar is onboard. However, AIS will come when it's time to start crossing oceans. Can you go without it… Yeah, you can. However, I would never let it get me to a point of complacency. Tech fails when you need it the most. I found that out the hard way when insurgents in Iraq attacked us outside a city. The radio was the first thing to crap out. It was working fine and then nothing… I view all technology as one more tool in the tool belt. Redundancy. It should never be a primary means of navigation, but should back up charts and your dead reckoning. I would have said sextant, but that's like voodoo or black magic to me!!
 
#28 · (Edited)
... There's nothing like seeing a squall coming at night with plenty of time to react...Redundancy...
You do not need radar to know about a squall. NOAA weather radio is great for warning about squalls, frontal passages, tornadoes, derechos, etc.. When the weather is "iffy", it is a good idea to play your dedicated portable weather radio constantly, (backed up on my boat by a shortwave (now) and 2 VHF radios, one portable and one fixed - all of which can receive NOAA weather broadcasts). You will know about the squall long before your short-range radar sees it. Some of these weather events, like derechos, are extremely fast moving, and you will be better off if you know far in advance when it will hit.

You will hear a warning signal, a description of the squall conditions, and its location, county by county as it approaches the Bay. The NOAA weather broadcast will also tell you at what time it is expected to hit your location. There is no reason to be caught unprepared when a squall hits or front comes through - immediately drop your sails, put on your foul weather gear, and start motoring, or put up your storm sails, or anchor and go belowdecks.

As an example, here is a video of a passage I took on the Potomac with the weather radio broadcasting in the background (no squall prediction):

It is also strangely comforting and slightly humorous to hear a computer-generated voice when you sail solo - some electronic companionship on your voyage. I have had a portable Weather One Weather Broadcast Receiver for a number of years - probably costs about $20 and it stays in the cockpit on all my trips.
 
#29 ·
That's kind of you, but I should be clear enough in every post that no one has to "know" me in order to understand me.

Some of you on this list may remember this..

Naval Academy Sailing | Naval Academy sailboat collides with barge, sinks - Baltimore Sun

..they tried to sail between the tug and barge on a dark and stormy night.

Bottom line..S&!t happens even to the best..
A friend of mine used to be a NASS coach. I sail the same waters with NASS and the midshipmen in YPs. The midshipmen may be training to be among the best but they aren't there yet. Probably not enough NCOs to keep them straight. *grin*
 
#33 ·
Well guys,

On Friday, I decided to sail my Catalina 27 single-handed from Deale to Quantico, VA. It only took me three days and I probably could have done it in two. I had a late start on Friday when my son got sick early in the morning. I didn’t get out of Herring Bay until 1013. Dulcinea was dialed into the wind (11 knots gusting 14) and flew down the Bay at 6 knots. The wind died down to about 6-8 knots as I was passing Calvert Beach and I ghosted at around 3-4 knots. I ended up heading up the Patuxent River and tucking into Harbor Marina. Honestly, I really wanted to check out the Tiki Bar and eat a minced meat sandwich. Coming into the river, I’ve never seen than many crab pots located in one area. I felt like I was on an episode of the Dangerous Catch. The wind on Saturday was non-existent so I motored down the Bay and around Point Look Out around 1050. I made really good time going up the Potomac and reached Cobb Island around 1550. The original plan was to anchor at Cobb Island. However, I had plenty of daylight so I pushed further up to Colonial Beach to hit the CBYC marina. The wind picked up to 11-15 knots in the middle of the river and I made great time to Colonial Beach. Oddly, some of the best sailing on this trip was in the Potomac around Nanjemoy Creek and when approaching Quantico. Anyway, it was a great trip… Here are a few takeaways for me:

- The Bay is very easy to navigate with just a chart, depth sounder, and a handheld compass. I used the Garmin handheld chart plotter to determine ETA’s. I didn’t feel like doing the math :D
- The SPOT messenger (not affiliated) gave my Chica and friends some piece of mind since they could track my progress in 15 minute increments from a shared website. They also have an iphone app that allows people to track your position on the phone. The SPOT also allows you to program the help button to contact BoatUS towing with your vessel information in case you need it.
- People don’t understand channel 16 is for hailing and emergencies. It’s not for radio checks which occurred every 20 minutes or so. People can switch to channel 28 (I think) to get a radio check from the seatow automated radio check (not affiliated either). It was worse on this trip then any other time on the Bay. Well, maybe I wasn’t paying attention.
- When coming into an unfamiliar marina, try to get as much info from the marina attendant prior to entering. As a single-hander, it was important to do a drive-by first and plan my approach. Of course, prepare all the lines and fenders so you can be ready to secure the boat once you get it into a slip. The Catalina 27 is light enough to be man handled into a slip.
- Jack lines and tether provided added insurance when securing the main sail in a chop with 3-4 foot waves. This was the case when coming close the channel to enter Colonial Beach.
- Large Gatorade bottles are very handy when nature calls in a busy area ;)
- When I was rounding Point Look Out and heading toward the mouth of the Potomac, I really wanted to head south and keep going…
 
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