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How much do you charge paying crew as a skipper a day

  • none free on board.

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • $10

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • $15

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • $20

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • $30

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • $40 or more

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • With No tinned fish or meat on the menu

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • With No instant noodles or instant soup on the menu

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Do you do the midnight watch when paying crew are on board

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It is reasonable crew pay for the whole passage in advance and you hold their passports

    Votes: 3 23.1%
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Warning warning advertising for paying crew

10K views 55 replies 20 participants last post by  bljones 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
WARNING WARNING WARNING

Hello!

I would like to warn everybody who wants to take part in

Please read Go to ...

Edit: Deleted of links that Violate the forum rule against "Axes to grind": Jeff_H SailNet Moderator

Just came back after sailing with them for two months around Philippines, Palau and FSM. We did visit some incredible places, but if your health, time and money are important to you, then please think twice before joining them. Safety and sanitary conditions aboard were bad, diving wasn't organised properly, atmosphere was tedious, captain owes thousands of dollars to paying crew members, etc...

Please read the following articles, if you are considering to join the ................ The first one is the article wrtten, while he was still aboard and the second one is a proper review written by another ex crew member.

Please read

Edit: Deleted of links that Violate the forum rule against "Axes to grind": Jeff_H SailNet Moderator
 
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#16 · (Edited)
Well sounds like you should have checked the safety equipment and if not comfortable left before leaving port. Heck I checked the safety equipment on a Carnival Cruse and would have notified the crew if I found something missing or out of date before leaving and would have left the ship had it not been resolved. You are the only one ultimately responsible for your own safety and if the boat was not safe, you should have never left port. I don't think for 35 Euro a day you should have been expecting to not be involved in maintenance and other tasks that may have been required. Come on it is not like you were paying for a luxury cruse, and must not have read the brochure. It is an Expedition, not a cruse liner. Just seems to me your expectations were way to high, heck you could not have stayed in an all inclusive resort for that kind of money, so why expect that level of service, on a boat no less.

This sounds a bit like the Rockdawg story, only one side.
You are completely wrong which negates all the comments opinions in your post.

Every boat, no matter how big or small, must have a skipper. The skipper is legally responsible for the safety of the boat and all the people on board, and is also responsible for complying with all the relevant rules and regulations, conventions, international treaties.

Please read;;;;

Skipper responsibilities

Plus Conventions on the law of the sea.

Its posters like you bring other boater owners and skippers in to disrepute with your ill informed bluffing postings. Plus giving confidence to others they do not have to check their responsibilities or get educated.

I do not have an ax to grind about paying for crewed positions. Its because skippers do not do their own due diligence and remain ignorant regarding their skippers responsibilities or bluff the inexperienced crew person bringing the credibility and yachting responsible owners and skippers into disrepute in the eyes off the non sailing citizens or first time crew sailors.

I might add I can stay in a pig sty for free which would probably be cleaner than that vessel.
 
#8 ·
Sounds like that person needs to buy their own boat and go cruising. Apparently they think that paying 39 euros a day is expensive and at that price they should be able to lounge around in a hammock all day and not lift a finger. I don't know anything about this Expedition company but that "objective" review came across as anything but.

My advice would be to manage your expectations. If you chartered a boat with a captain and a hired crew you have every right to demand everything to be shipshape and that your champagne isn't too warm. If you pay to crew on a boat things are going to be different. One cost a lot more than the other.
 
#11 · (Edited)
You obviously did not read the full articles or you have a vested interest.

The vessel is not surveyed let alone a ocean survey.
All life saving equipment well past inspection and renewal dates. These regulations are there for a reason and made by the authorities in just about all world nations not just as a means to stimulate jobs, employment and business.

So on your vessel every one has to become a vegetarian. Yes Vegetables are very expensive particulary in the Islands, they will give them to you , enough for 7 days or more for the whole vessel for a packet of 25 tailor mades smokes or a T Shirt especially if has an americiai flag insignia or such.

Sanitation non existant and sleeping with cockroaches and human body wastes on the decks. Imagine the flies when on anchor.

It irritates me to read of cruising yachts behaving as if they're doing us a favour by asking us to pay e30, e40, or much more, per day to work / crew on their sailing yacht which they can't sail safely unless they have crew.

No where in the article did it convey that they wern't prepared to do a watch and hang in a hammock the entire passage time or a reasonable amount in sailing the vessel whilst under way, other wise one would get pretty bored within a few days. Meals These days Pasta, instant noodles, rice only and instant cup a soup with tinned bully beef, mackerel, sardines, herrings in tomato sauce is not acceptable. If you need crew to help sail your dream boat then the boat is far to big for you to do your thing and in alot of cases it is virtually a delivery trip that they are not prepared to pay for a delivery skipper to sail with crew. Husband advertisers for crew to do the passage, whilst wife and kids fly to the destinations, wait in a 4-5 star hotel and on arrival the crew are given approx 48 hrs to vacant the vessel so wife and kids can board to save or the wife refuses to do watches, cook or clean for non family members. Also most owners never in my experience do the midnight watch its always rostered for the crew to do so his body clock is not put out unbalanced.

Read more re this issue...



Cruising vessels behaving as if they're doing us a favour.


Captains responsibilities

:laugher

.....
 
#10 ·
After reading the whole review Piclarke I have to say that in deed it looks like you had very different expectations.

Reading things like:
- "I am never a victim of these laborious activities and I’m diligently boycotting such exploitation (lying on the foredeck with a good book in my hands)"
- "I do not owe anything to Infinity, and do not have to do anything if I don’t feel like it."

It just makes it clear that you were looking for a holiday cruise and nothing to do with being involved on the boat, participate and learn. I also read Infinity Expeditions website and (whether u like it or not) it says very clearly that you are expected to works and be involved in maintaining the boat. The fact that you pay 30euros/day (or whatever it is) doesn't automatically make you a guest that only works when you feel like it. You agreed to certain conditions when you joined, especially one "the captain has the last word".

I think you are right writing a review saying what you thought but encouraging people not to join just because you had different expectations, seems a bit unfair in my opinion.
 
#38 ·
After reading the whole review Piclarke I have to say that in deed it looks like you had very different expectations.

Reading things like:
- "I am never a victim of these laborious activities and I'm diligently boycotting such exploitation (lying on the foredeck with a good book in my hands)"
- "I do not owe anything to Infinity, and do not have to do anything if I don't feel like it."

It just makes it clear that you were looking for a holiday cruise and nothing to do with being involved on the boat, participate and learn. I also read Infinity Expeditions website and (whether u like it or not) it says very clearly that you are expected to works and be involved in maintaining the boat. The fact that you pay 30euros/day (or whatever it is) doesn't automatically make you a guest that only works when you feel like it. You agreed to certain conditions when you joined, especially one "the captain has the last word".

I think you are right writing a review saying what you thought but encouraging people not to join just because you had different expectations, seems a bit unfair in my opinion.
Where in my posts did I write I wrote the review.
 
#13 · (Edited)
They are a problem these kinds of threads. Lack of any reasonable proof makes it difficult for us to leave them online, take them away and we'll be pilloried for censorship.

Reality is that this one will almost certainly disappear before too long unless the OP can find some support. Who knows ? He may well be on the money but he may also simply have an axe to grind.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Re: Cruising yachts behaving if they're doing us a favour

This is one of my hobby horses

It irritates me to read of cruising yachts behaving as if they're doing you a favour by asking you to pay e30, e40, or much more, per day to work / crew on their sailing yachts. Most of them call it "sharing expenses" but in my opinion, at that rate it is taking on working crew for profit.
So why did you sign on at however many Euros per day and stay onboard for two months ? After that you come in here whining about how you have been abused.

Quite frankly I have some pretty serious doubts about the veracity of your tale. It would be good to see others from that voyage backing up your argument but they are conspicuous by their absence. That is others, not one other.

With all those people on board you would think at least a few of them would publicly agree with you.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Re: Cruising yachts behaving if they're doing us a favour

So why did you sign on at however many Euros per day and stay onboard for two months ? After that you come in here whining about how you have been abused.

Quite frankly I have some pretty serious doubts about the veracity of your tale. It would be good to see others from that voyage backing up your argument but they are conspicuous by their absence. That is others, not one other.

With all those people on board you would think at least a few of them would publicly agree with you.
They are supposedly still on the boat travelling towards vanuatu with small children. The Skipper has already been find $2000 according to the article and not near a internet server.

You are assumming Sailnet is well known in the eastern longitude regions or even other than America being a american site.

7 knots yes is well known and boat design also crewfile.
 
#15 ·
Interestingly enough I've found two posts on other forums under completely different names and in one case supposedly a completely different gender that are word word and it would seem are written by the OP. One even carries that silly NZ wines BS and a link back to his home page.

I'm crying BS or at best a disgruntled punter unhappy with the people he chose to crew with.

One and one is not equalling two.
 
#18 ·
Interestingly enough I've found two posts on other forums under completely different names and in one case supposedly a completely different gender that are word word and it would seem are written by the OP. One even carries that silly NZ wines BS and a link back to his home page.

I'm crying BS or at best a disgruntled punter unhappy with the people he chose to crew with.

One and one is not equalling two.
Who's op. Which gender and which name.

Do you think the skipper would pay their return airfare to their home land if they left the ship as per the conventions on the law of the sea and other treaties , international agreements between nations and the United Nations.. Perhaps thats why they are still on the vessel.
 
#20 ·
I took a look at the sign-up page on their site. It's pretty clear what you're getting yourself in for. And you have to sign liability releases, etc. prior to hopping on?

No sympathy.

68-year-old dude signs up to hang with the 20 year old chicks? Yeah, that never works out.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Signing liability releases does not over rule a un statuory covention or state laws, worldwide treaties.

The port officials take no notice and state you delivered here it is your responsiblity to make provision to fly the crew member to his home land and if the skipper refuses they will give 24 hrs for the owner skipper to find another port to enter. - thats on entry. If after entry you give them the news [ the crew that is ] the authorities will state they will not sign / give departure papers for the vessel untill the skipper gives them the air ticket and will state he is also liablle for meals and hotel accommodation, transport costs to the airport. They will not give clearance to leave also untill the hotel, meals drinks, room service, other misc charges, bill is paid also. So the longer he refuses the more it will ultimately cost the skipper. If the skipper does a runner the authorities have a system in place all ports world wide will be given the vessels details passport no of the owner, ships registration details and he will have to pay the bill plus a fine before he can enter any port world wide. Even if he is an american with a american registered vessel.

The authorities will then pay the air fare for the crew member to his homeland knowing they will eventually be paid under the conventions on the law of the sea, and other treaties..

Captains responsiblities
 
#22 ·
Checking your previous posts, the last time you started a thread this off the wall was September 2012. If we allow for one per year, this is it for 2013 and we're good until around this time 2014, right?

Since you can only choose one option, that poll makes zero sense.
 
#32 ·
I have tried to make it more flexible with multi choices but can't fine how to. Can you please make it multi choice by internal audit. Even click on edit bar does not do it.

Why is it this subject which should be discussed openly and freely is being so restrictive. There are a lot of new junior members that don't search or reference the archives and it is not entirely the same. Yes.

Thanks and kind wishes.
 
#24 ·
Rather than remove these two threads, I'm going to just remove the references to the boat that piclarke has an issue with. There are some good discussions going on that might benefit novices. There are also unsubstantiated claims against the boat.
 
#46 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thanks T&W

Also crew should read

Edit: Deleted of links that Violate the forum rule against "Axes to grind": Jeff_H SailNet Moderator

And the other thread with both perspectives,

Edit: Deleted of links that Violate the forum rule against "Axes to grind": Jeff_H SailNet Moderator
 
#30 ·
If you are paying to be crew, that's a contradiction in terms. And it means that whoever you are paying is already engaging in drama, trying to evade the rules for operating a commercial sailing school or charter vessel. If they are going to cheat the tax man and cheat the maritime authorities, you already have proof that they are two-time cheaters and you ought to expect that they will be cheating you too.

Off the books, under the radar, call it what you will they are trying to dodge compliance with the safety regulations and business regulations as a lifestyle and repeatedly, so, why should they treat you any better?
 
#31 ·
Out of curiosity, I did click through the other reviews of this company (which are presumably removed from the original post but were easy to find as not all references to the boat name have been removed from this thread).

Both reviews struck me as fairly nuanced and well-written, and while I can see why one might criticize either reviewer for having higher expectations of the voyage than perhaps should have been signaled by the price, it's not hard to see how a reasonably intelligent person without much ocean-going experience might make the same mistake. Given that the NPO is targeting such young people to participate in these trips, the reviews seem quite fair in warning others of what they might be in for.

Since a little more digging also suggests that this business has recently changed hands, I wonder if these negative reviews are the result of a new captain who hasn't learned to match the expectations generated on the website with the actual experience.
 
#33 ·
The poll is what it is.

We're allowing the subject to be discussed. It does not, however, do anyone any good for you to continually disparage a company not given the chance to stand up for itself. That's not necessary to get your point across.
 
#36 ·
Since you can only choose one option, that poll makes zero sense.
Then why make a posting criticizing it and adding to the negativity. May I respectfully suggest you are inciting negativity and I would have though that is not your job. YES.
 
#37 · (Edited)
If you haven't done a search on TripAdvisor or had your opinions about a service expressed you can be hung out to dry and worse ,allow anybody following you the same fate. I find that many if not most tourists have checked me out before they board for what is the best part of their holiday (judging from their comments on TripAd) Sometimes you meet a real jerk and as a service provider, I can counter with my side.It's a good service.
 
#41 ·
After reviewing the website for the "expedition", who would lap up this stuff? Last updated Dec 2011? Is anyone qualified to be sailing this 120 foot ship? Eating granola with a Harvard degree doesn't qualify you.
I had all sorts of alarm bells go up. No way i would step foot on this boat unless they were paying me.

To the OP; you got what you paid for. It looks like it is all spelled out on their website.
Paying/Picking garbage/living with garbage/ rice eating, granola munching/ kuum by ya

THIS does not mean that i have an objection to the pay and play style of cruising. There are way to many granola eaters looking for a free vacation.
 
#43 ·
After reviewing the website for the "expedition", who would lap up this stuff? Last updated Dec 2011? Is anyone qualified to be sailing this 120 foot ship? Eating granola with a Harvard degree doesn't qualify you.
I had all sorts of alarm bells go up. No way i would step foot on this boat unless they were paying me.

To the OP; you got what you paid for. It looks like it is all spelled out on their website.
Paying/Picking garbage/living with garbage/ rice eating, granola munching/ kuum by ya

THIS does not mean that i have an objection to the pay and play style of cruising. There are way to many granola eaters looking for a free vacation.
Here is a quote from a webmaster and sailing publisher.

Quote

"Crew can legitimately be requested to pay much of their own expenses when it comes to food, alcohol and entertainment....expenses which would not be incurred by the vessel's owner if the crew were not on board. However the owner/skipper still needs to make some concessions, as without the crew many vessels simply could not move for more than a day at a time. Owners should pay for normal running expenses and still buy the crew a good feed after a passage.

I am not abnormally vain, but I like to think that when crew leaves me behind, they take with them positive memories about the trip, the boat and me.

'User pays' is a fact of life for banks, insurance companies, communications and airlines conglomerates...but as cruisers we still inhabit a world of sharing experiences, caring and courtesy.

I see nothing wrong with trying to make money from sailing if that is what takes your fancy; but be honest about it, get certified, surveyed, compete with legitimate charter boats, and pay for your marketing.

David. "

[/QUOTE]
 
#42 · (Edited)
After looking at the site it's easy to see how someone with an eye towards adventure could be attracted to something like this and end up being very disappointed. But it's also clear that it is in no way shape or form a vacation and that you will be living in very close quarters with other people. They also make it very plain that you are volunteering to perform a role:


  • I understand that I am applying to be a volunteer, therefore, I do not expect wages, payments, or any other form of compensation for my services or time spent with xxxxxxxxx.
  • I understand that as a volunteer, I am representing xxxxxxxxxx and I will conduct myself in a mature and responsible manner at all times.
  • I understand that any photographs or other media taken by me while I am an xxxxxx volunteer will belong to the xxxxxxxxxx.
  • I agree that I am fully responsible for payment of all medical expenses and other damages arising if I am injured or become ill while volunteering for xxxxxx.
  • I am willing to perform chores and to fill a role with good cheer, responsible initiative, and a positive attitude.
  • I understand the amount of time required and the dedication necessary to be a crewmember. I am willing to set aside personal agendas in order to focus on my vital role as a member of the xxxxxxx crew.
  • I agree to be filmed/photographed while with the xxxxxxxxx.

Personally, I'd have no expectation that the skipper would be taking turns on evening watches nor that they'd pay for return air fare if I wanted off the boat early. At the same time I don't blame you for being unhappy with the meals, nor do I think they should be holding passports. Without asking some questions, one is taking a very big leap of faith by signing on for something like this.

My suggestion is that you take it for what it was, - a learning experience. My guess is that there were probably some truly memorable moments both positive and negative. You've got some good stories to tell. Put the bad feelings in the rearview mirror and move on.

I'm not sure what's behind the lyrics in the Beach Boys' song "Sloop Jon B" but this story reminded me of it.

"The poor cook he caught the fits
And threw away all my grits
And then he took and he ate up all of my corn
Let me go home
Why don't they let me go home
This is the worst trip Ive ever been on"​
 
#49 ·
A signed contract does not overide an International Statuory agreement or International Convention that all countries governments have signed.

Show the signed contract to the ahthorities and they will say it makes no difference. Re sign him on the vessel or pay his airfares to his home land, taxi fare to the airport and accommodation, meals untill the plane / flight departs our sovereign soil or we will not issue you with a departure cleance certificate for your vessel. Which means you stay in port untill the crew member leaves. If the time period comes around that your permit stay has expired expect to get a import taxation bill from the authorities as well and if you cannot pay the import duty then expect your boat to be confiscated.

:)
 
#45 ·
Dude, if you don't like crewing on other people's boats - get your own. Then for just a few bucks per day you could lounge all you want, eat whatever you can cook, go wherever you please, and in general be the master and commander. Everything else requires compromise. And I would never, ever sleep on a filthy deck if I could lay my hands on a bucket of seawater and a rag.
 
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