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  #21  
Old 03-20-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I seriously doubt the OP is providing the crew out of the goodness of his heart.

Red=assumptions...again. (BTW - what exactly are you rolling your eyes at?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
He would have to be really stupid to offer to provide crew and not get paid for it...
Is that more assumption? In other words, in your world, he'd "have to be stupid" to X? Maybe I'd rather sail with him. He does have a Maxi you know. Heh-heh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
So, it appears pretty clear that he is double-dipping.
Maybe. Are you 100% certain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I'm basing my statements on the OP's own website. So, exactly how much guessing is involved here???
You're rolling your eyes again. You seem so jaded, dude.

As for the guessing...a lot I think. You may be 100% right. But we don't really know. That's my point. Should we give him some room to come back and clarify?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Only an idiot would really interpret this any other way.
Fixed the color issue. Wait...am I the idiot?
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2010
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Fixed the color issue. Wait...am I the idiot?
Only if you're interpreting it that way...
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2010
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Dog - you are really fun, dude. I mean it.
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2010
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If he's been paid to provided a "delviery crew", and he's pocketing the monies to pay that crew, AND then charging novice crew he advertises for. I don't believe owners should ask crew to contribute to boat or provisionong costs either.

Does anyone really think what the OP is doing is OK?
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2010
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The OP probably sees it as ethical....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ughmo2000 View Post
If he's been paid to provided a "delviery crew", and he's pocketing the monies to pay that crew, AND then charging novice crew he advertises for. I don't believe owners should ask crew to contribute to boat or provisionong costs either.

Does anyone really think what the OP is doing is OK?
Umm...what do you think the word tuition means? The OP uses the term in reference to crew on his website. The definition for the word TUITION is:

Quote:
A sum of money paid for instruction (such as in a high school, university, or college)
What else would unpaid crew be contributing????

Quote:
He says crew would be expected to contribute, he never says contribute financially.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #26  
Old 03-21-2010
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Crew available in St. Maarten to Holland

Hi Brendan Chandler! St. Maarten, 21.03.2010
I'm available in St. Maarten for clasic way delivery - unpaid and non-paying CREW POSITIONS. I have sailing experience. More about me: World citizen with Austrian passport (Europe), 57, I speak English and many other languages, widower, privateer, non smoker, non drinker, dentist out of service. Regards Your Sailor.
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  #27  
Old 03-21-2010
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You are aware that the OP expects you to pay for the privilege of crewing with him... right??
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Hi Brendan Chandler! St. Maarten, 21.03.2010
I'm available in St. Maarten for clasic way delivery - unpaid and non-paying CREW POSITIONS. I have sailing experience. More about me: World citizen with Austrian passport (Europe), 57, I speak English and many other languages, widower, privateer, non smoker, non drinker, dentist out of service. Regards Your Sailor.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #28  
Old 03-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ughmo2000 View Post
If he's been paid to provided a "delviery crew", and he's pocketing the monies to pay that crew, AND then charging novice crew he advertises for. I don't believe owners should ask crew to contribute to boat or provisionong costs either.

Does anyone really think what the OP is doing is OK?
"OK" by who's standard? That's the catch isn't it?

What are the "rules" governing delivery crew positions? There has been a lot of talk about the "ethics" of having people pay to crew. But again, where is that rule book? Who's the arbiter of what's "wrong" or "right" in how it's done?

People can agree to do anything in any way they want. That's what contracts are for. That's capitalism. In this case, regardless of how you might personally feel about the idea of having crew pay to play, at least the guy is letting people know up front what the deal is. That's ethical isn't it?

And take it one step further, if the skipper has an agreement with the owner to deliver a boat - and that owner has reviewed the guy's website (which one would think would be the case) - then the owner is fully aware of how the skipper works and how he seeks to recruit paying crew. So any assumptions at this point about perceived "unethical" behavior towards an owner (or even crew at this point) are pretty flimsy assumptions when no one here has any idea about that contract, or about the actual makeup of the final crew. It's just a bunch of guessing and accusatory innuendo.

As I said before, for me, I'd pay to crew on a large racing yacht if it was skippered and crewed by seasoned sailors from which I could learn. I see that as perfectly OK. On the other hand, if it was only a crew of greenhorns who were paying to be there, I'd personally pass. Doesn't sound safe or educational to me. Others may feel different.

Knowing what I know at this point, I think the guy is pretty smart. Why not supplement a delivery income by charging people to do what sounds like an incredible sail on an incredible boat? If there are some that are interested and everyone knows what they're getting into...cool. If not, he'll have to go about getting crew in other ways through other incentives. Happens all the time.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 03-21-2010 at 01:11 PM.
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  #29  
Old 03-21-2010
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This whole thread is shady... It's been five days and nothing else from the OP? No clarification? Has anyone heard from this guy?
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  #30  
Old 03-21-2010
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If he is charging the crew for their passage, they are technically passengers, not crew. Granted, they are working passengers, but as they have paid the captain, the do not qualify as "crew" in the normal sense. As such, his liability to them is probably somewhat different than if they were paid crew.

He is, in effect, running a charter service using someone else's boat. This may affect the insurance coverage of the boat being moved. Most privately owned boats are covered when being moved by a delivery captain, but are not covered if used in a commercial charter, which this well might be considered.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 03-21-2010 at 02:20 PM.
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