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  #31  
Old 03-21-2010
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While it seems shady to me too, I would point out that the tuition mentioned on the website might be unrelated to the contribution in the OP, even if the contribution is in fact financial.

When my friends come sailing with me, they do it for fun, even though they work. Sometimes (sometimes they just sleep). Not like they'd work on a maxi, but they're they're doing whatever level of work we've implicitly agreed upon because they wanted to do it. I don't charge them, but when we stop for victuals, we typically split the bill.

If that's all the OP intends, I don't see it as a serious issue, though it does paint him somewhat the unprofessional if he operates his business the way I operate the boat I take my friends out on for weekend cruises.

I do think that the level of work required on a delivery cruise, even on a "leisurely" one, warrants some compensation beyond simply the thrill of crossing the Atlantic on a maxi. The problem I've got is that he's offering instruction for a fee (in other words, transferring skills to the crew in exchange for money), which means he wants skilled crew. If he's willing to trade skill for cash, he should be willing to trade cash for skill.
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  #32  
Old 03-21-2010
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In the US, there is a huge difference if the contribution is REQUIRED versus VOLUNTARY. IIRC, if the contribution is required, you are now a commercial enterprise according the the USCG and require a USCG license. If the contribution is voluntary, then you are not.

One is payment for use of a boat—the essence of chartering a boat—regardless of what form the payment takes. The other is a friend being generous so he is invited back to sail again.

From reading the OP and his website, it does not sound like the TUITION or the CONTRIBUTION are voluntary, but required. At least in the US, he would be considered chartering the boat—one that he DOES NOT OWN, and probably does not have permission to charter.

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Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
While it seems shady to me too, I would point out that the tuition mentioned on the website might be unrelated to the contribution in the OP, even if the contribution is in fact financial.

When my friends come sailing with me, they do it for fun, even though they work. Sometimes (sometimes they just sleep). Not like they'd work on a maxi, but they're they're doing whatever level of work we've implicitly agreed upon because they wanted to do it. I don't charge them, but when we stop for victuals, we typically split the bill.

If that's all the OP intends, I don't see it as a serious issue, though it does paint him somewhat the unprofessional if he operates his business the way I operate the boat I take my friends out on for weekend cruises.

I do think that the level of work required on a delivery cruise, even on a "leisurely" one, warrants some compensation beyond simply the thrill of crossing the Atlantic on a maxi. The problem I've got is that he's offering instruction for a fee (in other words, transferring skills to the crew in exchange for money), which means he wants skilled crew. If he's willing to trade skill for cash, he should be willing to trade cash for skill.
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  #33  
Old 03-21-2010
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Licenses are one thing, ethics is another. So far all we've been talking about is the ethical issue. Honestly, even if the guy can be considered to be operating a chartering business without the proper licenses, it's hardly a scandal worthy of this forum.

Also, "tuition can be arranged if needed" is what the website says. I.e. not mandatory. Also, "tuition" means both "monetary fee for training" and "training", especially in the U.K.

Long story short is while we may disagree with how he runs his business, Smack is right. We're just guessing at what arrangement he has with the owner and crew. And if the owners don't know that he's looking to take on crew that might be (in your interpretation) paying him for the opportunity, they can look at the guy's website, like we did.
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  #34  
Old 03-21-2010
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Wait, I'm confused, the OP never said ANYTHING about having to PAY ANYTHING, so what the hell is your problem sailingdog? How about you shut the f. up for once? Contribute means WORK! You can't be friggin serious.
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  #35  
Old 03-21-2010
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Dog - it seems some people (person) consistently have to take the counter point and argue... I agree, quite shady. how someone doesn't see this is beyond me. Perhaps some people (person) just like to argue too feel included and important?
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  #36  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eMKay View Post
Wait, I'm confused, the OP never said ANYTHING about having to PAY ANYTHING, so what the hell is your problem sailingdog? How about you shut the f. up for once? Contribute means WORK! You can't be friggin serious.
Ummm... Got an ax to grind? If you click through the OP's link and then click on 'Crew Wanted' he clearly states that 'Tuition' can be arranged. I'm sorry but tuition implies money being paid. Tuition isn't being on watch, cooking, cleaning... That's work.

As Dog pointed out by the way...
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It seems to me that if this whole deal was on the up-and-up the OP would have shown back with something to say after 5 days and all that's been said.

I'm just sayin' ...
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  #38  
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If I was on the receiving end of the blitzkrieg that the OP got, I would stay the hell away too.
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  #39  
Old 03-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krozet View Post
Dog - it seems some people (person) consistently have to take the counter point and argue... I agree, quite shady. how someone doesn't see this is beyond me. Perhaps some people (person) just like to argue too feel included and important?
Kroz - if it's me you mean (and I think it is) I don't argue just to argue. I just don't feel comfortable judging people based on a string of assumptions. I believe there are always two sides to a story - and I think it's good to leave some room for that story to develop instead of immediately skewering people on suspicion.

I don't know for sure if this guy's legit. I don't think any of you guys knows for sure that he's not. And that's the point.
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  #40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Kroz - if it's me you mean (and I think it is) I don't argue just to argue. I just don't feel comfortable judging people based on a string of assumptions. I believe there are always two sides to a story - and I think it's good to leave some room for that story to develop instead of immediately skewering people on suspicion.

I don't know for sure if this guy's legit. I don't think any of you guys knows for sure that he's not. And that's the point.
I don't see any judging, I see people asking questions and reading the website posted by the OP (and maybe some assumptions). It is pretty clear that the OP is not giving all the information, giving conflicting info and when pressed they have disappeared...

I have seen people get jumped on for far less here. It just seems odd that certain people take the opposite view of the SAME people consistently. Everyone seems so polarized right now, is this the winter itch and all goes back to normal once the boats are launched?
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