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  #11  
Old 10-21-2010
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well, not to offend you sailingdog:

But the trip is not to be a bargain for anyone. Neither the Skip nor the rest of the crew. You and I know that a decent boat is necessary to cross the Atlantic. Do you own one? Well, if so, you can go ahead and sail on your own making decisions as you wish. If not, and you´d still like to participate in xing the ocean, you will need to make arrangements. Either purchase a boat or ask someone to take you along.

I think it´s just fair to have everyone contribute to the running costs, no one is asking the crew for money for parts, gas, harbouring, mooring, etc..

Here, no one is hiring a crew. Nor buying. People are being asked, just like your friends would ask you to go on vacation with them. Will they be paying your expenses? No! The only difference now is: Here you do not know the rest of the crew - YET!

So, if someone is looking for making money out of this - this is the wrong place! It´s all about fairness and having fun for 2-3 weeks. And that will actually cost you a little. But therefore you will have a great boat and two great sailors participating.

Hope this helps...and again: NO offense ok. Just clarifying...

Last edited by snowflake123; 10-21-2010 at 12:10 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowflake123 View Post
well, not to offend you sailingdog:

But the trip is not to be a bargain for anyone. Neither the Skip nor the rest of the crew. You and I know that a decent boat is necessary to cross the Atlantic. Do you own one? Well, if so, you can go ahead and sail on your own making decisions as you wish. If not, and you´d still like to participate in xing the ocean, you will need to make arrangements. Either purchase a boat or ask someone to take you along.

I think it´s just fair to have everyone contribute to the running costs, no one is asking the crew for money for parts, gas, harbouring, mooring, etc..

Here, no one is hiring a crew. Nor buying. People are being asked, just like your friends would ask you to go on vacation with them. Will they be paying your expenses? No! The only difference now is: Here you do not know the rest of the crew - YET!
I'm not saying that crew volunteering for a delivery should be paid... I'm just pointing out that by crewing for the trip, they are giving up the ability to earn money, and that this trip is not a cruise, but a delivery trip. Delivery trips are generally a lot of hard work and often done under less than optimal weather conditions, since the goal is to MOVE THE BOAT.

Asking someone to work their ass off under less than optimal conditions for two-to-three weeks, for free and then ask them to pay for their food and their airfare really doesn't strike me as a good deal for them. The minimum I'd expect the captain to do is feed the crew... especially if they're not paying for the transportation to and from the boat.

If this were a pleasure cruise, that would be a different story entirely. It isn't.
Quote:
So, if someone is looking for making money out of this - this is the wrong place! It´s all about fairness and having fun for 2-3 weeks. And that will actually cost you a little. But therefore you will have a great boat and two great sailors participating.

Hope this helps...and again: NO offense ok. Just clarifying...
I'd also point out that in general, the people who would be willing to accept these terms are sailors who are probably less experienced and looking to gain experience. While that may be fine, it does leave you with a less capable crew overall. Of course, this may just be based on my expectations, but on the last delivery I did, I repaired the autopilot, fixed the shower sump, fixed the transmission, and repaired the air conditioning among other things.
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  #13  
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@ sailingdog:

I see your point. And yes, I agree, for a straight delivery all expenses should be paid by the owner.

But here, this is NOT the case. The boat is in a great shape, just went through professional overhaul. Electrics, Engines, Carpentry, Electronics, etc... So up to now, no repair jobs required.

Also the crew need NOT be experienced as the Capt. is and also the other crewmember. It´s just about redundancies and workload sharing, eg. night watch. It´s more fun when you are 3 or 4 on board, don´t you agree?

Also, if the WX is unsuitable, departure will be delayed accordingly. No hurry to get there. The Cat is fast anyhow and will make it in no time.

This all means: The trip is about fun and relaxing. No delivery, no rush. Think of it as vacation, where perhaps only a destination is given.
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
... I would love to join if the air fare is a bit less.

..
Are you sure you qualify?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowflake123 View Post
you are of descent appeearance ...
Regards

Paulo
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  #15  
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Just curious, how do you see this as not being a straight delivery trip? The trip is about 2700 nm as the crow flies. You say the trip will last 17-21 days... I see that as pretty much a straight delivery.

If you make it in 17 days, you're making about 160 nm per day or have to average 6.62 knots... That's moving pretty good for a 36' catamaran, and not leaving much time for sightseeing or anything else. Even at 21 days, you're still looking at 130 nm per day or 5.42 knots per day. Of course, you'd have to have an almost perfect weather window to make that kind of speed, as I seriously doubt you've got enough fuel aboard the boat for more than 300 NM or so of motoring.

You say that the boat is in great shape and no repairs are necessary, but I've found that repairs are pretty much a fact of life... If you don't have to repair something during the course of a trans-Atlantic passage, I'd be really surprised.

So, I'm just curious as how you see this as being a vacation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowflake123 View Post
@ sailingdog:

I see your point. And yes, I agree, for a straight delivery all expenses should be paid by the owner.

But here, this is NOT the case. The boat is in a great shape, just went through professional overhaul. Electrics, Engines, Carpentry, Electronics, etc... So up to now, no repair jobs required.

Also the crew need NOT be experienced as the Capt. is and also the other crewmember. It´s just about redundancies and workload sharing, eg. night watch. It´s more fun when you are 3 or 4 on board, don´t you agree?

Also, if the WX is unsuitable, departure will be delayed accordingly. No hurry to get there. The Cat is fast anyhow and will make it in no time.

This all means: The trip is about fun and relaxing. No delivery, no rush. Think of it as vacation, where perhaps only a destination is given.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #16  
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sailingdog:

you´ve looked at the map yet? do you see any islands in between to stop at? well, i don´t. so, whether or not it is considered a delivery or pleasure trip, it´s only a matter of attitude. i.e.:

delivery: get there asap. WX? live with it...

pleasure: get there sometime. if it takes 2 weeks, good. if it takes 4, also good. it´s about learning, living and having a good time.

on both sides of the story: there´s no place to stop in between.

i think i made my point..
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  #17  
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and besides all that, sailingdog: YOU are not going, are ya?

so, leave room for some applicable questions please. THX.
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  #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowflake123 View Post

..You and I know that a decent boat is necessary to cross the Atlantic...The Catamaran is some years old...36ft Catamaran...We will leave last Sunday of November.... just like your friends would ask you to go on vacation with them. ....... It´s all about fairness and having fun for 2-3 weeks. .....it´s definitely going to be a cool trip.
I wish you a very good vacations and a cool trip, on the end of November, in Açores. But I would not call fun to sail out of Açores in the end of November on a "some years old 36ft cat". Maybe you get lucky, but let me show some videos of Açores on that season:

This one is only some days old:

YouTube - MVI_2233.MOV

This is from =1/01/2010:

País - Está a abater-se forte temporal sobre os Açores - RTP Noticias, Vídeo

This is from 28/12/2009:

Notícias País A Ilha Terceira foi dos locais mais afectados pelo temporal nos Açores 28-12-2009 | VÃ*deos NotÃ*cias | SIC Online

This one is from 08/10/2008:

YouTube - Mau Tempo I

This one on 28/08/2008:

YouTube - viento y lluvia en el mar

Well, at least you know that this one is ready to pick you up...if you don't get lucky

Sailing in Açores seas on a search and rescue mission:

YouTube - (HD) Storm In Azores - Tempestade (NRP Joao Coutinho F475) SAR MAR09

Regards

Paulo
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  #19  
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Thanks Paulo—That was kind of my point... he's trying to pass this off as a vacation... It isn't one. NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. IT IS A DELIVERY TRIP.

I guess I just prefer HONEST FULL DISCLOSURE rather than the Pollyanna BS that Snowflake is spouting.
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New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 10-21-2010 at 02:27 PM.
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  #20  
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you know guys. we already found someone.
and to be honest. you are the ones why people avoid forums like this. you can only critizize, make things look bad, put stuff in the way. try to be more helpful, i will certainly do you well.

if there´s atime to cross from the canaries, then it´s end of nov, beginning of dec. you all know that. it´s not a day on the pond, yes, but it´s the best time. as the arc tells us...

and now, please...let it go..

Last edited by snowflake123; 10-22-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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