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Canaries to the Caribbean Nov/Dez 2010

7K views 50 replies 11 participants last post by  sailingdog 
#1 · (Edited)
We are looking for another one or two easy-to-get-along-with-people to give us a deck hand on the way from Gran Canaria to the Caribbean. So far we are two. Experienced male Captain in his mid 40´s and a male friend, also mid 40´s.

The trip will be made on Captain´s 36ft Catamaran, which he had just brought over from Greece with his family. They leave ship on the Canares and will meet the crew in the Caribbean around Xmas again. Planned arrival destination is St. Lucia.

The Catamaran is some years old, but very well equipped and on a new technical standard. Completely overhauled in 2010 with lots of redundancies.

We will leave last Sunday of November, trip is planned for 17-21 days, depending on weather and winds.

If you are willing to help out on deck or below, you are easy to get along with, have no criminal records and you are of descent appeearance with some english or german language knowledge, well, you want to contact us through PACTOR III directly: dl2mfs@winlink.org

You will have to pay for your own expenses such as flights and daily allowances. Ship handling and customs will be taken care of by the Captain.
 
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#2 ·
To clarify, are you feeding the crew while on passage or are they responsible for contributing to the ship's stores of food and drink?
 
#3 ·
You will have to pay for your own expenses such as flights and daily allowances. Ship handling and customs will be taken care of by the Captain.
If I read it correctly. You have to pay for your own food. The Captain will pay the boat expenses.

Just check the flight to Azores, it was $1600 one way from East Coast (PHL or BWI). With the flight back from Caribbean, the air fee alone will run more than $2000. I would love to join if the air fare is a bit less.

I am sure it will be a great trip. I hope someone will be able to make it. All the best. :)
 
#4 ·
In some cases the daily allowances are for shore-side eating...since that can range quite widely in terms of costs—which is why I asked for a clarification.
 
#8 ·
Rockdawg—

The least expensive flight I've seen from BOS to SMA is about $900 with two stops.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hello to you all,

thanks for the great interest. I am delighted :)

Well, here are some clarification items:
The Catamaran is owned by 2 guys. Me and the Skip on the boat right now. I am in Montreal at this time (business). The Skip on the Cat will take it to the Caribbean. I will take it back to Europe in 2011/2012. So questions need to be forwarded to the Skip on board. No sweat to contact him via PACTOR III on given email. But anyways, I can answer questions on landline as well, if so requested.

The reason asking for another one or two crewmembers is: Two guys said they were gonna go but now called in sick or unwilling. So we are looking for suitable replacement. I amjust helping as it is easier to coordinate from ashore. Nevertheless, Skip on board gets info from me regularly.

I guess it could be possible to get a ride from southern Portugal or Gibraltar to the Canaries on the Cat (to lower flight costs), since Skip is heading towards Gib right now. They are in eastern Spain at this time. We just have to ask the Skip and you better be quick, so you don´t miss him...

For the food, let´s make it reasonable. Everyone should contribute a little bit to the food on board. More or less. Once on shore, most of the times checks get split anyway. So just play it with some reasonable sense. You would be eating at home too, wouldn´t ya? So, no additional costs actually...

Anymore questions? For serious interests, we can also talk on the phone if one wishes. Write me a PM, then I´ll give you my #.

Thanks again for asking, it´s definitely going to be a cool trip. The boat is very nice and has a lot of room.
 
#10 ·
Generally, the captain is responsible for feeding crew during the actual voyage and for their transport to/from the boat, especially if they're fairly experienced crew and not being paid.

You're looking looking for crew to come along, pay for their share of the food expenses and pay their airfare to/from the boat... no wonder those two bailed. At a minimum, anyone crewing for you is going to be laying out at least $1200 in airfare and then have to pay for food on top of that... WHAT A BARGAIN... :puke
 
#25 ·
Actually, if the crew is only required to pay for their food and flights the trip is a GREAT BARGAIN. I have friends on 3 different boats that charter the ARC, which is pretty much the trip this fellow is talking about. They charge between $3400 - $5000 per person and the crew is responsible for their own flights to and from. They are all full this year and have advance booking for next years ARC. There are a lot of people on the ARC site that would jump at this chance. Of course that is providing the boat is properly outfitted for an ocean passage.
 
#11 · (Edited)
well, not to offend you sailingdog:

But the trip is not to be a bargain for anyone. Neither the Skip nor the rest of the crew. You and I know that a decent boat is necessary to cross the Atlantic. Do you own one? Well, if so, you can go ahead and sail on your own making decisions as you wish. If not, and you´d still like to participate in xing the ocean, you will need to make arrangements. Either purchase a boat or ask someone to take you along.

I think it´s just fair to have everyone contribute to the running costs, no one is asking the crew for money for parts, gas, harbouring, mooring, etc..

Here, no one is hiring a crew. Nor buying. People are being asked, just like your friends would ask you to go on vacation with them. Will they be paying your expenses? No! The only difference now is: Here you do not know the rest of the crew - YET!

So, if someone is looking for making money out of this - this is the wrong place! It´s all about fairness and having fun for 2-3 weeks. And that will actually cost you a little. But therefore you will have a great boat and two great sailors participating.

Hope this helps...and again: NO offense ok. Just clarifying...
 
#12 ·
well, not to offend you sailingdog:

But the trip is not to be a bargain for anyone. Neither the Skip nor the rest of the crew. You and I know that a decent boat is necessary to cross the Atlantic. Do you own one? Well, if so, you can go ahead and sail on your own making decisions as you wish. If not, and you´d still like to participate in xing the ocean, you will need to make arrangements. Either purchase a boat or ask someone to take you along.

I think it´s just fair to have everyone contribute to the running costs, no one is asking the crew for money for parts, gas, harbouring, mooring, etc..

Here, no one is hiring a crew. Nor buying. People are being asked, just like your friends would ask you to go on vacation with them. Will they be paying your expenses? No! The only difference now is: Here you do not know the rest of the crew - YET!
I'm not saying that crew volunteering for a delivery should be paid... I'm just pointing out that by crewing for the trip, they are giving up the ability to earn money, and that this trip is not a cruise, but a delivery trip. Delivery trips are generally a lot of hard work and often done under less than optimal weather conditions, since the goal is to MOVE THE BOAT.

Asking someone to work their ass off under less than optimal conditions for two-to-three weeks, for free and then ask them to pay for their food and their airfare really doesn't strike me as a good deal for them. The minimum I'd expect the captain to do is feed the crew... especially if they're not paying for the transportation to and from the boat.

If this were a pleasure cruise, that would be a different story entirely. It isn't.
So, if someone is looking for making money out of this - this is the wrong place! It´s all about fairness and having fun for 2-3 weeks. And that will actually cost you a little. But therefore you will have a great boat and two great sailors participating.

Hope this helps...and again: NO offense ok. Just clarifying...
I'd also point out that in general, the people who would be willing to accept these terms are sailors who are probably less experienced and looking to gain experience. While that may be fine, it does leave you with a less capable crew overall. Of course, this may just be based on my expectations, but on the last delivery I did, I repaired the autopilot, fixed the shower sump, fixed the transmission, and repaired the air conditioning among other things.
 
#13 ·
@ sailingdog:

I see your point. And yes, I agree, for a straight delivery all expenses should be paid by the owner.

But here, this is NOT the case. The boat is in a great shape, just went through professional overhaul. Electrics, Engines, Carpentry, Electronics, etc... So up to now, no repair jobs required.

Also the crew need NOT be experienced as the Capt. is and also the other crewmember. It´s just about redundancies and workload sharing, eg. night watch. It´s more fun when you are 3 or 4 on board, don´t you agree?

Also, if the WX is unsuitable, departure will be delayed accordingly. No hurry to get there. The Cat is fast anyhow and will make it in no time.

This all means: The trip is about fun and relaxing. No delivery, no rush. Think of it as vacation, where perhaps only a destination is given.
 
#15 ·
Just curious, how do you see this as not being a straight delivery trip? The trip is about 2700 nm as the crow flies. You say the trip will last 17-21 days... I see that as pretty much a straight delivery.

If you make it in 17 days, you're making about 160 nm per day or have to average 6.62 knots... That's moving pretty good for a 36' catamaran, and not leaving much time for sightseeing or anything else. Even at 21 days, you're still looking at 130 nm per day or 5.42 knots per day. Of course, you'd have to have an almost perfect weather window to make that kind of speed, as I seriously doubt you've got enough fuel aboard the boat for more than 300 NM or so of motoring.

You say that the boat is in great shape and no repairs are necessary, but I've found that repairs are pretty much a fact of life... If you don't have to repair something during the course of a trans-Atlantic passage, I'd be really surprised.

So, I'm just curious as how you see this as being a vacation. :D

@ sailingdog:

I see your point. And yes, I agree, for a straight delivery all expenses should be paid by the owner.

But here, this is NOT the case. The boat is in a great shape, just went through professional overhaul. Electrics, Engines, Carpentry, Electronics, etc... So up to now, no repair jobs required.

Also the crew need NOT be experienced as the Capt. is and also the other crewmember. It´s just about redundancies and workload sharing, eg. night watch. It´s more fun when you are 3 or 4 on board, don´t you agree?

Also, if the WX is unsuitable, departure will be delayed accordingly. No hurry to get there. The Cat is fast anyhow and will make it in no time.

This all means: The trip is about fun and relaxing. No delivery, no rush. Think of it as vacation, where perhaps only a destination is given.
 
#16 ·
sailingdog:

you´ve looked at the map yet? do you see any islands in between to stop at? well, i don´t. so, whether or not it is considered a delivery or pleasure trip, it´s only a matter of attitude. i.e.:

delivery: get there asap. WX? live with it...

pleasure: get there sometime. if it takes 2 weeks, good. if it takes 4, also good. it´s about learning, living and having a good time.

on both sides of the story: there´s no place to stop in between.

i think i made my point..
 
#19 · (Edited)
Thanks Paulo-That was kind of my point... he's trying to pass this off as a vacation... It isn't one. NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. IT IS A DELIVERY TRIP.

I guess I just prefer HONEST FULL DISCLOSURE rather than the Pollyanna BS that Snowflake is spouting.
 
#20 · (Edited)
you know guys. we already found someone.
and to be honest. you are the ones why people avoid forums like this. you can only critizize, make things look bad, put stuff in the way. try to be more helpful, i will certainly do you well.

if there´s atime to cross from the canaries, then it´s end of nov, beginning of dec. you all know that. it´s not a day on the pond, yes, but it´s the best time. as the arc tells us...

and now, please...let it go..
 
#23 ·
.....
and to be honest. you are the ones why people avoid forums like this. you can only critizize, make things look bad, put stuff in the way. try to be more helpful, i will certainly do you well.

if there´s atime to cross from the azores, then it´s end of nov, beginning of dec. you all know that. it´s not a day on the pond, yes, but it´s the best time.

and now, please...let it go..
Well, certainly not. I think you are referring to the period out of Hurricane season (from June to November), but these are not the only Atlantic storms.

Certainly, end of November or December it is a good time to cross the pond, but not from Açores. On Açores, from October to Mars you are in the rain and stormy season. With a 36ft cat, to cruise the Atlantic you need fair weather and should not risk crossing in a season and in a place where you have a good chance to meet with really bad weather. On this season some of the Islands remain sometimes completely isolated for weeks. The weather is just too bad to risk a crossing and this guys are good sailors. Just look in what conditions they cross and imagine the conditions when they don't risk a crossing:D :

YouTube - Cruzeiro no Mau tempo

The right time to cross from Açores is after the stormy and raining season and
before the Hurricane season: April and May.

You can cross the Atlantic in December/January but you should go down 750 miles, till you are in front of the African coast. Normally sailors use Canary Islands has a departing point. That's what ARC does.

Regards

Paulo
 
#24 ·
Hello there,

I have been hoping to do a transatlantic crossing this november, and
have travelled to Europe specially for this purpose. I am currently in
the Uk seeing family and meeting folk that are Caribbean bound for the
winter.

I live on Nevis, one of the Leeward Islands, and have been sailing
most of my life. I own a 39 foot Corbin, a solid monohull, which I
skipper and have done 3,000 plus miles offshore, including a 10 day
passage. All of this has been shorthanded - myself and a friend. I am
used to 6 hour night watches! I installed a new diesel into the boat
singlehanded, which suggests that I have some mechanical ability. I am
a regular fiberglass worker and love fixing. I am also willing to pay
airfare and my personal consumables. Sorry for all the 'I's, I don't
wish to seem at all self absorbed, because I am easy company and a
kind person! Got a bunch of energy too - I am 27 years old and I am a non smoker (some people require this sort of info).

Should your crew be filled, no worries, but in the instance that you
might be interested in my help, please could you give me some more
information about the boat, its 'redundancy package', the work that as
been done on it and the sort of weather it has been thru; the trans
Atlantic experience of the skipper (and, for that matter any other
offshore experience he/she may have) and anything else that I may have
missed out that would be important to know. It will be a very tough delivery
trip leaving late in November and a shame you could not leave with the
fleet of the ARC because having many other boats in relative proximity
is a redundancy in itself!

Look forward to hearing further,

Charlie
 
#27 ·
As for all the concern about the weather, the trip from the Canaries to St. Lucia at the end of Nov, beginning of Dec is pretty much a milk run, except for the occaisional squall and they are few and far between. Last year my friends had to jibe once after they started heading west, so I really don't think anyone will be "working their backsides off". Of the dozens of people I have talked to that actually made this trip it was one of the greatest experiences of their lives.
 
#28 ·
They are not going from Canary, but from Azores, that are 750 nautical miles to the North.

There is a famous Transat race that at the first and second weeks of November passes near Azores. Almost in every edition they experiment strong winds and many times big storms when they pass in that area. On the 2002 edition 3 60ft racing cats capsized there and they had already their sails down. I know that a cruising cat is not a racing cat, but come on, a 36 ft cat on winds over 70K and huge seas? Would you risk a fair possibility of encountering those conditions?

Regards

Paulo
 
#32 ·
I saw your post on the other site this morning. You should have no problem finding crew there especially since on the first page there are 16 posts from people looking to crew and only 4 boats offering spaces, and one of those is for next year at a cost of $6750 per person, like I said you are offering a GREAT DEAL!
 
#33 ·
Snowflake, I deliver a few boats each year. Both coasts, Mexico, the Bahamas, VI's, Hawaii, trans-Atlantic, trans-/Pacific, et al. Your passage is quite certainly a delivery and not a island to island sailing vacation. On all of my deliveries the owner has paid my airfare, my expenses, covered my provisions, and compensated me for my time, knowledge, and efforts. You might call your passage a vacation but your crew will be getting tired, cold, wet, sitting watches in the wee hours, etc. In short, they WILL BE WORKING.

But I'm a reasonable guy so I'll make you a deal similar to the one you offer.

Fly yourself to my home, live in half of my walk-in closet, let me wake you up every six hours, throw cold salt water on you a few times a night, then during the day you can help pay for the materials and you can help me paint my house. I'll even let you do all the stuff up high and the hardest parts of the job. When we're done painting you fly yourself home. If you do that I'll be more than happy to fly myself to your boat, get woke up every six hours, endure cold, salt water dousings, and do whatever needs to be done on your boat to get it non-stop from the Canaries to the Caribbean.

Thats esentially the same deal your offering. But hey! It's not a job! Consider it a vacation!

Regardless, I wish you the very best and fair winds on your passage.
 
#36 ·
Snowflake, I deliver a few boats each year. Both coasts, Mexico, the Bahamas, VI's, Hawaii, trans-Atlantic, trans-/Pacific, et al. Your passage is quite certainly a delivery and not a island to island sailing vacation. On all of my deliveries the owner has paid my airfare, my expenses, covered my provisions, and compensated me for my time, knowledge, and efforts. You might call your passage a vacation but your crew will be getting tired, cold, wet, sitting watches in the wee hours, etc. In short, they WILL BE WORKING.

But I'm a reasonable guy so I'll make you a deal similar to the one you offer.

Fly yourself to my home, live in half of my walk-in closet, let me wake you up every six hours, throw cold salt water on you a few times a night, then during the day you can help pay for the materials and you can help me paint my house. I'll even let you do all the stuff up high and the hardest parts of the job. When we're done painting you fly yourself home. If you do that I'll be more than happy to fly myself to your boat, get woke up every six hours, endure cold, salt water dousings, and do whatever needs to be done on your boat to get it non-stop from the Canaries to the Caribbean.

Thats esentially the same deal your offering. But hey! It's not a job! Consider it a vacation!

Regardless, I wish you the very best and fair winds on your passage.
You are really missing the point aren't you, let me explain it in terms you might be able to understand.
How many people do you think there are in the world who have had the lifelong dream of working on your house? The All Knowing, All Seeing, Uncle Ruckus has the answer to that....ZERO, NIL, ZILCH, ZED, NOT A DAMN ONE! However there are thousands of folks who have always dreamed of crossing an ocean on a small boat. Now how many businesses make a living charging people thousands of dollars to come work on your house?... see answer above, but a quick look at the ARC website will reveal dozens of charter boats that charge big money for the opportunity to make this passage. Do you see the difference here? Is there anyone that can explain it to you?
For many of those charter boats the ARC is their biggest event of the year. Big Spirit, a 72' Challenge boat, is making the passage and then returning 6 weeks later and has paying crew in both directions.
Now I suppose there will always be people looking to get something for nothing, the kinds with their hands out trying to grab all they can, that expect others to support them, feed them and pay for their travel. But true sailors do it for the love of sailing. Kinda reminds me of these charter skippers that expect the guest to pick up their bar and dinner tabs when they eat on shore, how pathetic is that.
The title of this page is crew wanted, not free room and board, or lucrative marine employment opportunities. If the deal being offered isn't for you then don't apply for it, that's pretty simple to understand isn't it. But when people post these positions and get nothing but a bunch of BS from the same blowhards, it will only make others less willing to offer these opportunities to those of us who would love to make passages that would otherwise be beyond our means.
And if I could get the time off from work I would cut off my left gonnad with a pair of rusty hedge clippers to take advantage of the fantastic opportunity that this gentleman is offering.
 
#34 ·
Fortunately for Snowflake, there are hundreds of people that would do that work at their own travel expenses and the expense of their consumables. It is a fantastic opportunity for someone. I personally do offshore sailing because there are fewer things that make me feel luckier to be alive than a dousing of cold saltwater... Except a good woman.
Directed at those who have posted suggesting that the trip is a delivery and the crew should be paid etc - Each is entitled to their own opinion, but why bother posting if you are trying to stir up a discussion in bad taste? It reads very negatively and is sad to see. Perhaps you should save those sorts of polarised opinions for political discussions! Good luck to snowflake and great luck to the negative folk on becoming more positive!
 
#35 ·
Cgaskell-

Please note, I never said the CREW SHOULD BE PAID... I merely pointed out that UNPAID CREW on a delivery should not have to pay for their transportation to and from the boat or need to pay for the food/drink they'll consume while working on the boat for free.

There is a difference between being uncompensated, which is what I am suggesting that unpaid crew be...and having to PAY FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF WORKING YOUR ASS OFF.

The fact that the OP doesn't see this as a delivery trip and is trying to pawn it off as a vacation is highly unrealistic to anyone who has done a long delivery.
:rolleyes:
 
#40 · (Edited)
Snowflake—

Not your forum.. I'm expressing my opinion. If you don't like it... TOUGH ****. I'm not the cheapskate looking to have crew subsidize my delivery... you are.

There are two viewpoints here.. you with your "this is a great deal and you'll have a great vacation" and the truth...which you don't appear to appreciate. This is a delivery, not a vacation, not a pleasure cruise.
 
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