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  #51  
Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

If you get the boat moved, what will you do with it then? If it does not receive significant repair (at some significant expense and if it is repairable or worth repairing), you'll have the same problem again in a different location. And if it is repairable and you intend to do it, why not earlier and how could you let it get into current condition (before it was stripped)?

If you can get the bottom area around the keel cleared away so that the bottom is not restricting the heeling, you might get a large horsepower motorboat to connect to the top of mast (i.e. halyard or similar) and while the motor boat gently pulls very hard at roughly ninety degrees to direction that you want to move your boat, you might be able to heel the boat over sufficiently at high tide to work it towards deeper water. Assuming your engine isn't working at this point, you'll need a boat on the bow to pull your boat while the other power boat is heeling your boat. All this assumes that the standing and running rigging are up to the task. Also, moving ballast (anything heavy) to one side can help achieve the heeling.

The 500 gallon stainless steel tank....why that size, how was it installed, and how was it removed? Really 500 gallons? 1 gal/hr x 5 mph = 2500 miles.
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  #52  
Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

Kind of like this:

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  #53  
Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

that is not hard to do with a canting keel and a mast that long. it also was not stuck in 3 ' of mud
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  #54  
Old 07-24-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
The 500 gallon stainless steel tank....why that size, how was it installed, and how was it removed? Really 500 gallons? 1 gal/hr x 5 mph = 2500 miles.
Oh, come one. You don't REALLY believe that he had a 500 gallon tank, do you? I'm sure it's like his 250 yards of 3" chain.

So just for fun, let's review the most obvious of the lies/exaggerations posted by the OP...

"I have been forced to plead guilty..."

In these United States, no one is ever FORCED to plead guilty. It is a choice that you made, like your choice not to get insurance. Most likely you chose to plead guilty because you knew you were going to lose anyway, and you could get a slightly lesser penalty by not contesting the charge. That's the most common reason that people plead guilty.

"I was not responsible for her current condition..."

It's your boat, you ARE responsible. Even if others really did go out and strip her while securely at anchor (which, I have my doubts), you are still responsible for the boat.

"...250 yards of 3 inch chain with a 75lb. Danforth iron anchor."

Uh, yeah. I don't think so. As someone else said, either a deliberate lie or a gross exaggeration indicating that you are completely ignorant of what sort of ground tackle you were using.

"... right when tropical storm Sandy was coming into her windup around here."

Tropical Storm Sandy did not EVER come into her windup around here. The effects of Sandy were very minimal. A little bit of wind and rain, but no worse than we have been seeing the past month with the usual, Florida, afternoon thunderstorms. You repeat this talk of all the damage Sandy did to you several times, across several posts. Complete and utter nonsense. Nothing more than a hollow excuse.

"she was at anchor near Anclote Key..." "she was anchored south of the Anclote River, which put her squarely in Pinellas County..."

Squarely in Pinellas County? Do you even know where the border between Pasco and Pinellas counties is? Only the southern tip of Anclote Key is in Pinellas County. The rest is in Pasco County. At most you might have been "barely" in Pinellas County, rather than "squarely" in it.

"...from my electrically powered self-contained 42' Morgan Outisland..."

Morgan made an Out Island 41. They also made a 42' sailboat that was not a part of the "Out Island" series. What they did not make was a 42' Out Island. What you have (if anything) is probably an Out Island 41. It comes as no surprise at all to me, however, that you don't know that.

So really, is there any reason to believe anything that is getting posted by the OP here? I have to agree with whoever it was that said, it appears that the OP is exactly the sort of person who is causing so many communities to try to restrict liveaboards and long-term anchoring. Either that or he is just a troll, hoping to elicit some sort of reaction from people. And why is it that these kinds of posts ALWAYS seem to come from self-proclaimed "captains," when it's obvious that they couldn't captain themselves out of a paper bag?

Last edited by denverd0n; 07-24-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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  #55  
Old 07-24-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Oh, come one. You don't REALLY believe that he had a 500 gallon tank, do you? I'm sure it's like his 250 yards of 3" chain.

So just for fun, let's review the most obvious of the lies/exaggerations posted by the OP...

"I have been forced to plead guilty..."

In these United States, no one is ever FORCED to plead guilty. It is a choice that you made, like your choice not to get insurance. Most likely you chose to plead guilty because you knew you were going to lose anyway, and you could get a slightly lesser penalty by not contesting the charge. That's the most common reason that people plead guilty.

"I was not responsible for her current condition..."

It's your boat, you ARE responsible. Even if others really did go out and strip her while securely at anchor (which, I have my doubts), you are still responsible for the boat.

"...250 yards of 3 inch chain with a 75lb. Danforth iron anchor."

Uh, yeah. I don't think so. As someone else said, either a deliberate lie or a gross exaggeration indicating that you are completely ignorant of what sort of ground tackle you were using.

"... right when tropical storm Sandy was coming into her windup around here."

Tropical Storm Sandy did not EVER come into her windup around here. The effects of Sandy were very minimal. A little bit of wind and rain, but no worse than we have been seeing the past month with the usual, Florida, afternoon thunderstorms. You repeat this talk of all the damage Sandy did to you several times, across several posts. Complete and utter nonsense. Nothing more than a hollow excuse.

"she was at anchor near Anclote Key..." "she was anchored south of the Anclote River, which put her squarely in Pinellas County..."

Squarely in Pinellas County? Do you even know where the border between Pasco and Pinellas counties is? Only the southern tip of Anclote Key is in Pinellas County. The rest is in Pasco County. At most you might have been "barely" in Pinellas County, rather than "squarely" in it.

"...from my electrically powered self-contained 42' Morgan Outisland..."

Morgan made an Out Island 41. They also made a 42' sailboat that was not a part of the "Out Island" series. What they did not make was a 42' Out Island. What you have (if anything) is probably an Out Island 41. It comes as no surprise at all to me, however, that you don't know that.

So really, is there any reason to believe anything that is getting posted by the OP here? I have to agree with whoever it was that said, it appears that the OP is exactly the sort of person who is causing so many communities to try to restrict liveaboards and long-term anchoring. Either that or he is just a troll, hoping to elicit some sort of reaction from people. And why is it that these kinds of posts ALWAYS seem to come from self-proclaimed "captains," when it's obvious that they couldn't captain themselves out of a paper bag?
I know he didn't have a 500 gallon tank.....I'm not even sure that he has a boat, and for sure, he doesn't know very much about boats. And if he does have a boat, the conditions that he described are directly related to not knowing much at all about boats and are his fault. Still, it would be interesting to hear what he would have to say about it.

I generally agree with everything in your post.

However, if one visits boat yards and marinas, or reads lots of forums like this one, it is clear that there are many, many people who know almost nothing about boats who dive into a project to fix up one....it's generally called upgrading....with no understanding of what they are getting into, no idea what it would cost, with little of the skills or tools needed, and totally without funds to make a reasonable attempt at fixing up a broken, worn out vessel. And after the money runs out, and they get tired of messing with the boat, they give up and move on leaving a derelict abandoned for someone else to clean up. On one hand, I feel sorry for them because usually they can ill afford to waste their money and time. On the other hand, they kind of deserve what they get by charging into something that they know nothing about without doing a little homework first.

My last boat, used by me for 22 years, and a subsequent owner for 3 more lies abandoned in a local boat yard. A man (third owner) knew nothing about sailboats, never had been sailing, but thought the living aboard and cruising would be great came along. So he bought the boat and immediately started disassembling, and modifying everything. When he bought the boat, it was completely serviceable. it was old and had some issues that he could have worked on gradually. But he was going for a "upgrade". I felt sorry for him and on several occasions offered to show him how to sail. He declined....too much into the upgrade. Spent lots of money and time making the boat un-sailable. But he did learn the name of another brand of boat that is considerably more upscale than my old boat by hanging around in the boat yard. So he abandons my old boat after destroying whatever value was left, buys the better brand, and set about making it un-sailable also. And both were made unsellable too. And after more time and money, the second boat was left beside the first one, both now being in derelict status.

Last edited by NCC320; 07-24-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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  #56  
Old 07-25-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
...there are many, many people who know almost nothing about boats who dive into a project to fix up one... with no understanding of what they are getting into, no idea what it would cost, with little of the skills or tools needed, and totally without funds to make a reasonable attempt at fixing up a broken, worn out vessel.
You're absolutely right. And one of my pet peeves is that, when people like that come here looking for advice, if we tell them the truth--that they are getting in a whole lot deeper than they realize--then we will be accused of being "naysayers" and of trying to "destroy their dreams" and so on.

They don't want to hear honest assessments of their situation. I can sort of understand that. They have a dream and they don't want to be told that they are being unrealistic. What I find odd is that so many other posters will also jump in and start accusing those who are blunt, honest, and factual of being "naysayers."

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are a lot of people out there who desperately need to hear someone say "NAY!" This thread's OP being just one.
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  #57  
Old 07-25-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Neptune weeps:
Really still trying to figure out how all this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by captmetatron View Post
they took EVERYTHING made of metal or containing it,all the wiring, batteries, solar panels, wind generators I invented, bilge pumps, inverters charge controllers, hatches, 8 Perko bronze(brass?) portholes, a 500 gallon stainless fuel tank from under the back deck that they ripped up to get, and probably last but most assuredly not least, the anchor (one assumes) and the 250 foot 3 inch iron anchor chain, and assorted goodies, my 90 inch wifi enabled plasma tv, 1000 watt stereo,guitars, amps, my computers and laptops, nav/sonar equipment, the entire binnacle, compass, wheel, stand all, stainless steel stove and restaurant hood and microwave, two refrigerators, a deep freezer, all of the lights and fixtutes and wiring, even (sorry, will continue in next post, ( the aluminum toilet paper roll holder.
BTW a 90" plasma has dimensions of approx 81" long X 18" deep X 49" tall.. Just how big is that companionway.....? Oh and they cost about 7k which is enough to do some nice cosmetic work to Miss Liberty. This may just may have prevented the county from deeming her a derelict vessel....

I've also never seen a "restaurant hood" that would even come close to fitting on that boat... Two refrigerators and a deep freezer, 1000W stereo and a 90" plasma? How did he power all this? Surely the little Honda on the back deck did all this...

I suspect he was talking about his storage unit that was pilfered but certainly not a boat of that size with the claimed gear on-board....

So even if he got the 90" TV on-board, perhaps the tarp is covering the access hole for the TV, 500 gallon tank and restaurant hood, where do you hang a 4' tall, 1.5' deep and 7' long TV on that boat? I also don't see any "solar panels" or "Wind generators" .....

A 500 gallon tank would be something like 8' long 2' tall and 4' wide and does not lend well to fitting "under the back deck" with a hull form like that......

I would like to hear more about how he "invented" wind generators. Invisible wind generators are surely to be a huge hit with the cruising community..

This is very amusing but just too far out there & far fetched. I'm suspecting we've been professionally trolled on this one...
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 07-25-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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  #58  
Old 07-25-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

The plama TV fit in easily...they had apparently already widened th companionway for the 200 gallon aquarium and the grow lights for the pot plants.
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  #59  
Old 07-25-2013
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Re: Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Really still trying to figure out how all this:



BTW a 90" plasma has dimensions of approx 81" long X 18" deep X 49" tall.. Just how big is that companionway.....? Oh and they cost about 7k which is enough to do some nice cosmetic work to Miss Liberty. This may just may have prevented the county from deeming her a derelict vessel....

I've also never seen a "restaurant hood" that would even come close to fitting on that boat... Two refrigerators and a deep freezer, 1000W stereo and a 90" plasma? How did he power all this? Surely the little Honda on the back deck did all this...

I suspect he was talking about his storage unit that was pilfered but certainly not a boat of that size with the claimed gear on-board....

So even if he got the 90" TV on-board, perhaps the tarp is covering the access hole for the TV, 500 gallon tank and restaurant hood, where do you hang a 4' tall, 1.5' deep and 7' long TV on that boat? I also don't see any "solar panels" or "Wind generators" .....
Yea I think his storage unit is what he was calling his boat. Both are made out of concrete!

Here they are opening up his unit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
A 500 gallon tank would be something like 8' long 2' tall and 4' wide and does not lend well to fitting "under the back deck" with a hull form like that......
Yea, I think he meant "under the back deck behind his storage shed behind the trailer" like a large heating oil tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I would like to hear more about how he "invented" wind generators. Invisible wind generators are surely to be a huge hit with the cruising community..

This is very amusing but just too far out there & far fetched. I'm suspecting we've been professionally trolled on this one...
I think what was Invented was the fact that he had a boat at all! Yes obviously the poster does not have this boat, but it is entertaining to play along.

Last edited by miatapaul; 07-25-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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  #60  
Old 07-26-2013
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When you go trolling, the object of your efforts is to hook something...lots of solid bites here!!!
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