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  #11  
Old 10-20-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
(Mod hat on for the moment .... sad though it may be, if this thread spends too much time in "tree hugging propaganda" mode it will end up in PRWG.)
Might as well buy it a ticket Fuzzy...
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

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Originally Posted by jppp View Post
Right. All that plastic belongs there. Those millions of gallons of crude from DWH had no effect. The Fukashima leak (continues) to have no effect. Everything is fine!!
I'm not claiming everything is fine but this story makes my point very well if you just look at it closely enough.

Let's all dispense with the hyperbole.
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2013
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Wink Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

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Originally Posted by jppp View Post
Right. All that plastic belongs there. Those millions of gallons of crude from DWH had no effect. The Fukashima leak (continues) to have no effect. Everything is fine!!
Whew! Glad to hear that all is not lost JP. Feel a real sense of relief
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

In this era of political correctness, the reality is no one ever goes back to recreate the baseline and pads science with opinion akin to Richard Fenymann's Cargo Cult Science. The Elephant in the Room is always the root of all problems defined simply too many people occupying too small a space. (Too many people = root problem not consumption as the by-product.)

Nothing sickens the sailors heart more than sailing through a flotsam of garbage, especially after large storms or disasters purged it from the shores to the sea. This is even more disheartening when thousands of miles from shore in an area we would expect to be free of the effects of man. But, luckily, this is the still the exception and not the rule.

I do agree that the effects of nitrogen based fertilizer is far more damaging to the immediate environment than 10 Deep Water Horizon spills.

The reality is balance. Man creates an imbalance and nature works to eventually balance it back out.
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Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdoster View Post
In this era of political correctness, the reality is no one ever goes back to recreate the baseline and pads science with opinion akin to Richard Fenymann's Cargo Cult Science. The Elephant in the Room is always the root of all problems defined simply too many people occupying too small a space. (Too many people = root problem not consumption as the by-product.)

Nothing sickens the sailors heart more than sailing through a flotsam of garbage, especially after large storms or disasters purged it from the shores to the sea. This is even more disheartening when thousands of miles from shore in an area we would expect to be free of the effects of man. But, luckily, this is the still the exception and not the rule.

I do agree that the effects of nitrogen based fertilizer is far more damaging to the immediate environment than 10 Deep Water Horizon spills.

The reality is balance. Man creates an imbalance and nature works to eventually balance it back out.
You are exactly correct and that is a clear-headed and dispassionate. What I find disturbing and more than a little deceptive is the panicked claims of various environmentalists and those who agree with them. For instance:

1975......"scientists say that because of man's interference the world will experience a new, deadly, irreversible ice age by the year 2000 unless we stop using fossil fuels NOW".

2013.....'scientists say that because of man's interference the world will be engulfed by rising sea levels and terrible droughts caused by global warming unless we stop using fossil fuels NOW"

Those who believe the Hollywood tripe and ivory tower hype a la "the day after tomorrow" will lie about what they observe or learn in order to further their agenda....ergo tree hugging propaganda BS.
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seafrontiersman View Post
You are exactly correct and that is a clear-headed and dispassionate. What I find disturbing and more than a little deceptive is the panicked claims of various environmentalists and those who agree with them. For instance:

1975......"scientists say that because of man's interference the world will experience a new, deadly, irreversible ice age by the year 2000 unless we stop using fossil fuels NOW".

2013.....'scientists say that because of man's interference the world will be engulfed by rising sea levels and terrible droughts caused by global warming unless we stop using fossil fuels NOW"

Those who believe the Hollywood tripe and ivory tower hype a la "the day after tomorrow" will lie about what they observe or learn in order to further their agenda....ergo tree hugging propaganda BS.
I wonder if the author of the article mentioned may have gone through part of the "Pacific Garbage Patch". Basically the currents in various parts of the world cause garbage to collect in certain places in the ocean. Some of Tsunami garbage has likely ended up there.

Personally, I'm not much of a chicken little and I think overly dire predictions do more harm than good.

I'm old enough to remember the ice age predictions and there definitely were scientists back in the 70's that felt we were headed towards another ice. They grabbed some headlines in magazines like Time and Newsweek. But even then there were other scientists predicting that the increasing production of CO2 would eventually lead to warming, not cooling. The National Academy of Scientists at the time basically punted saying that we don't know enough about climate to make long term predictions. Today there is a pretty overwhelming consensus there is a warming trend and it will likely continue.

As I said, I'm not a chicken little but neither am I one to stick my head in the sand when it comes to this stuff. I think the warming is real and that it will have consequences both good and bad. It will be really bad for some people and like it is more often than not, it will be the worst for those who don't have the means (or perhaps the sense) to adapt.

Last edited by unimacs; 10-21-2013 at 02:04 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

I amazes me that some people's initial reaction is the fear that some environmentalist on a forum might get a minute of told ya so. That is small.

This article is one person, its not a scientific survery but it does make me think that I should read up and learn about what is happening in the Pacific. Most people share a common interest in and rational concern for the preservation of the ocean and sea life. The Tsunami and Fukishima are pretty scary stuff and many boats are reporting these debris.
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

"overwhelming consensus there is a warming trend"

And the consensus a few hundred years ago was that the Earth was flat and before that
the Sun revolved around the Earth. Consensus is not science.

For a more balanced approach about AGW go to Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

I am curious what others have seen.

I found the PNW very clean. However, there was the odd log floating out there. Pretty scary if you think about what would happen if you hit it. Still, I found it surprisingly clean.

I sailed off the coast of California and found that very clean too - except the ruddy kelp fields... some of which are huge!

In the gulf, I have hardly ever found anything. I have been all over it and have found it very clean. Same for the Keys and Atlantic. The only exception was after Charlie, but that even seemed to disappear relatively quickly. Too bad all the sunken boats didn't, but that is another story.

SO I wonder if some of our environmental laws have really helped this? Nothing wrong with the fishing down here either. Some of the old timers say it was a lot better many years ago, but I also just read in the news about how the price of lobster, shrimp, and other fish has been so depressed due to farming that they are getting record catches but still going broke because they still cannot sell it as cheap as the farmed stuff.

Of course, you cannot farm dolphin or sword, so they may be getting over fished.

Curious what some of our Australian and circumnavigators say about this and what they have seen. Frankly, I haven't seen any problems.

Brian

PS One exception that was mentioned: THe water coming off the Caloosahatchee River has to be the worst I can remember. Due to the rains, it was some of the brownest and nastiest water I have seen. Someone commented about pesticides and fertilizer in the water, and I can definitely see where that could be a problem.
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  #20  
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

CD: you are right about the fertilizers and pesticide runoff. My somewhat limited understanding is that the prime culprit in South Florida and the Keys where I live is residential lawns.
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