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  #21  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

As those who sail or support sailing, the bottom line is, we have to do our part to keep the oceans clean and vibrant and alive. We must also support those working to do the same. Whining about the state of the oceans or sticking your head in the sand really does nothing. Humpback whales are again in all seven seas, and making a comeback.(60 Minutes). Efforts are being made everywhere to protect fisheries including reestablishing oyster reefs which help protect the estuarial waters where most fish begin life. Yes, there is still an immense amount of work to be done, so, let's get motivated and do our part to save those seas and waterways we all love and cherish.
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  #22  
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Cargo Cult Science by the late Richard Feynmann should be required reading for everyone and it is a fun read. When pressed during the shuttle disaster has he proved the o rings get brittle in cold removed some material from a water glass in front of him and broke it before the committee.

The problem is people are motivated by emotion, especially fear, and rarely absolute logic. So, I can come out with a product and call it the Magical Cure and hire a lab to do a study and report the results. I am hiring them to prove Magical Cure works, so they are going to account for supporting data and discount unsupportive data regardless of whether it changes the end hypothesis or not.

Al Gore is screaming the world is coming to an end and making millions and living like a king for doing so. Jimmy Carter turned the heat down in the White House and made other personal sacrifices. Which is a better leader?

Currently if a storm forms in the Atlantic, the same type computer models that will predict the path and intensity of that storm are being used to prove that not only is the earth warming, but man is completely responsible for it. If you apply logic to that hypothesis, then you simplify the problem to a proven baseline of too many of any single species without natural population control will deplete resources. Hang on there.... We can't say that.

You should be able to extrapolate that the author points out a very definable and perceivable problem. But what the politicians are telling us today is to not build a coal fired plant that powers a start up company that manufactures portable sewage treatment plants, or portable plastic recycling plants that shred bottles and tires and turn them into long lasting paved roads to be used in developing countries. They are using an emotional issue to win votes and increase tax revenues as well as achieving personal wealth and gain.

When Al Gore gives up the jet, a few of his mansions and gives his wealth to developing solutions instead of being the poster child for creating the problem he is warning us about, then we'll talk.

Until then, you want to buy a bottle of Magical Cure? It is proven by independent labs to work Magic.
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainmeme View Post
"overwhelming consensus there is a warming trend"

And the consensus a few hundred years ago was that the Earth was flat and before that
the Sun revolved around the Earth. Consensus is not science.

For a more balanced approach about AGW go to Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change
It would be a huge waste of time for me to post any information refuting what Andrew Watts has to say because you are determined to believe it no matter what. Am I wrong ?

Ask yourself why that is. Ask yourself why you accept scientific consensus when it tells you that the Earth revolves around the Sun but you won't accept scientific consensus in the case of global warming? Why do you choose to believe a former FOX weatherman instead?

There was never any scientific consensus that the earth was flat. Aristotle knew it was round in 330 BC. Contrary to popular myth, most educated Europeans knew it was round at the time of Columbus.

As far as which heavenly body revolves around which, more scientists would have come to the correct conclusion sooner had they not been so heavily influenced and in some cases threatened by the religious powers of the time.

That's not to say that scientists can't be wrong. They certainly can be. But I trust them more than I trust the people who have vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

If you want to know the truth, follow the money. Who stands to lose the most if people started to take global warming seriously and acted accordingly. Surely not some of the anonymous donors to places like the Heartland institute.
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  #24  
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

[QUOTE=Alive3and3Well;1108477]As those who sail or support sailing, the bottom line is, we have to do our part to keep the oceans clean and vibrant and alive. We must also support those working to do the same. Whining about the state of the oceans or sticking your head in the sand really does nothing. Humpback whales are again in all seven seas, and making a comeback.(60 Minutes). Efforts are being made everywhere to protect fisheries including reestablishing oyster reefs which help protect the estuarial waters where most fish begin life. Yes, there is still an immense amount of work to be done, so, let's get motivated and do our part to save those seas and waterways we all love and cherish.[/QUOTE

100% Correct - I agree. The only way to do anything is to act as individuals and teach other individuals to act in similar ways. Simple things like taking a garbage bag with you in the dingy and cleaning up a little along the way. Picking up after the inconsiderate people next to you on the beach who left it there. Leave a note on the guys boat that never goes anywhere and never has the holding tank pumped - yes, we know who you guys are... That kind of stuff people see and they start to do their part as well.

Using more natural fertilizers and pesticides and educating friends and family.
Allow more drilling offshore BUT, you drill one, clean up 3 more that were left behind you. Yes, nothing worse than abandoned platforms, especially unlit.

Using Regulations and taxes the way they are supposed to be used for.
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  #25  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainmeme View Post
"overwhelming consensus there is a warming trend"

And the consensus a few hundred years ago was that the Earth was flat and before that
the Sun revolved around the Earth. Consensus is not science.

For a more balanced approach about AGW go to Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change
But tripe most certainly is a load of old cobblers.

In 300bc or thereabouts Pythagoras had already calculated that the earth was a sphere and even by the time of Columbus only a few nutbags thought the earth was flat.

Meanwhile in the 16th century the likes of Galileo and Copernicus fought to convince the heliocentric deniers that the Sun was indeed the centre of our solar system and not as the traditionalist continued to claim a system where the earth was at the centre.
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Last edited by tdw; 10-26-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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  #26  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alive3and3Well View Post
As those who sail or support sailing, the bottom line is, we have to do our part to keep the oceans clean and vibrant and alive.
I was recently in Belize and took a walk on the "beach" in Placencia, and I was shocked to see about 7 million plastic lids covering the beach. Every shape and size, from gallon coffee can lids, to 5 gallon bucket lids to countless water bottle and pop bottle lids. It's incredibly F'ing sad. Call me a tree hugger or whatever you want, but we have got to start taking care of our planet.
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Working on the EXXon spill on the Kenai I was amazed at the amount of plastic on the beach. mostly Japanese. that was then and its probably worse now but still covered with oil. Further down the coast I have no doubt we've wiped out the herring by overfishing, destroyed many salmon spawning areas by logging everything and introducing foreign viruses.Even without the spectre of climate change, dead zones are becoming more common, starfish seem to be disappearing and Humbolt squid will consume what's left .You don't have to be Chicken Licken to realize we're hip deep in the effects of our own barnyard crap but it's the bigger stuff that will make life interesting ; while it lasts.

Last edited by Capt Len; 10-21-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenoch View Post
...we have got to start taking care of our planet.
I am all for this. I am the guy who can't walk past a gum wrapper lying on the floor. I hate litter and refuse to throw anything - ashore or at sea - into anything other than the appropriate bin.

But I am a realist and I know the average citizen is NEVER going to do this. The US and the states have had never ending anti-litter campaigns and penalties for littering since I was a kid. Have they worked? Nope and they never will. You will find a community here and there across the globe where it's hard to find litter. In general the wealthier countries in Europe are much cleaner than poorer non-European countries.

I live on a 2 mile long dead end road that is very rural with few families living along it. It is pastoral and most visitors along our road come to our community because they appreciate its natural beauty and wildness. It's a great place to picnic and swim in the river and camp on the extensive sand and gravel bar and to launch a boat to enjoy the river. And every weekend as the visitors make their exodus they leave the detritus of their visit that they don't leave on the sandbar along the roadside as they make their way back to the main highway.

They do the same thing while on the river. They toss their trash out of the boat into the river to wash into the marshes and the bays.

The average Joe and Jane are lazy and uncaring. Not all...but the average. And half are more lazy and uncaring than the average. Many of them treat the home they live in the same way they treat the planet.

I don't know how you change this. In the US perhaps we could require everyone who's on the dole turn in a hundred pounds of trash a week to receive their benefits. Surely the forty seven million of them could make a dent in it.
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  #29  
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
In the US perhaps we could require everyone who's on the dole turn in a hundred pounds of trash a week to receive their benefits. Surely the forty seven million of them could make a dent in it.
Ha! Perfect! Then the rich folk, and oil companies can litter all they want and the poor folk have to clean it up!
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Do any of you dive or snorkel? As a spear-fisherman, I have experienced Bahamian reef life degradation up close and personal over the last nine years. The coral is dying and there are significantly less fish in my favorite areas in both northern and southern Bahamas. Some species that were plentiful nine years ago are now almost completely decimated.

I know this is anecdotal evidence from just one person, but to me it's absolutely real. I am disheartened when I read posts that hold the politically-motivated blathering of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk in higher regard than actual observations of scientists and other people with meaningful experience.

If we are talking about ocean life, you really need to get off your boat and get your face down where the fish live.
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