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  #31  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Two places come to mind for the mindless dumping by average folks. The road to Nea Bay from Port Angles and any road on the Big Island, Hi. Even SE Asia cleans up litter and recycles .Not all environmental issues are the fault of big oil.
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  #32  
Old 10-21-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwing View Post
Do any of you dive or snorkel? As a spear-fisherman, I have experienced Bahamian reef life degradation up close and personal over the last nine years. The coral is dying and there are significantly less fish in my favorite areas in both northern and southern Bahamas. Some species that were plentiful nine years ago are now almost completely decimated.

I know this is anecdotal evidence from just one person, but to me it's absolutely real. I am disheartened when I read posts that hold the politically-motivated blathering of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk in higher regard than actual observations of scientists and other people with meaningful experience.

If we are talking about ocean life, you really need to get off your boat and get your face down where the fish live.
The reefs of Caribbean Costa Rica are almost entirely gone. Anyone can go to Cahuita or Manzanillo and look at them, covered in silt....dead from Banana plantation pesticide run-off.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

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Originally Posted by Tenoch View Post
Ha! Perfect! Then the rich folk, and oil companies can litter all they want and the poor folk have to clean it up!
Good job. You picked out the one tongue-in-cheek throwaway line in my post.

As I said in my post...I don't think this is a correctable problem because human nature will not change. Pass all the laws you want and increase the punishment if you wish. Won't make a difference.

I know you can change some attitudes in some places and perhaps do some good locally. From the 70s to the 90s I watched as the water in San Diego Bay went from abysmal to beautiful. I hope it still is (haven't been there in a few years).

Most of the trash in the ocean and the lifeless regions are not caused by what happens on the ocean but what happens on the land. The debris of life and the chemicals of modern civilization wash into the sea from the rivers and streams that empty into it.
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

I was walking down the street a few weeks ago and a man in front of me threw a cigarette butt on the ground. I reached down and picked it up, carried it over to a garbage can, made sure it was out and threw it away. He watched that happen and if it happens enough times, he may change his behavior. And he may not, but does not mean I change my behavior because of the bad apples.

My strongest point is that complaining that the government or someone needs to do something about it is mute. We get regulations from the EPA that take taxes, fees and fines that don't fund what they are supposed to fund. We have people like Al Gore out there making millions off of lecturing on Man Made Global Warming, but has his own jet and multiple homes that are much larger than he needs and has a personal carbon footprint hundreds of times larger than most of the people he is lecturing.

No one looks at the big picture and Lord knows no one wants to boil things down to the actual problem or even talk about the elephant in the room. No one wants to look at other ramifications or actually mitigate the long-term problems, much less talk about anything unless there is personal near term gain to be had.

It is a losing battle to expect someone else to do something about it, but doing our own part can be contagious and at least thought provoking.
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  #35  
Old 10-26-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
As I said in my post...I don't think this is a correctable problem because human nature will not change. Pass all the laws you want and increase the punishment if you wish. Won't make a difference. .
I remember being in court for a traffic ticket I was fighting (and won) when the Girl ahead of me lost her littering fine. What did she do? She tossed a cigarette butt out the window of her car infront of a cop.

My Late Grandmother lived a mile from the traffic light down the road. Just far enough away that all the people who lit up while stopped would finish and toss the butt.. the first 10 feet of her property was nothing but nasty cigarette butts. They were impossible to get out of the grass.

You are completely right. It has to start at home with you and me. Once we get our "homes" in order.. we can get everyone else in line
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  #36  
Old 10-27-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Here on Vancouver Island we sort and recycle nearly all our throw out. Kitchen refuse goes in a separate compost container , plastic separate from paper ,etc Visiting yachties are unfamiliar with the concept and don't read the signs either. Pisses me off! OTOH we haven't solved our sewage issues yet,. so room for improvement on all sides. (reading the other day about Ibuprofen not breaking down in the environment and killing otters in Europe. So think about your connection to stuff with the morning caffeine and squat.I know I do).
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  #37  
Old 10-27-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

What really annoys me is how there is zero accountability for all the folks that make these false proclamations. Seriously? That is an intelligent statement?


Actually, what gets me is people who feel that they can go and do anything without regard to their actions in regards to fishing, dumping, etc. Many cod and Atlantic salmon on the east coast??? What about sardines on the west coast? How is the Salmon fishery doing off the Oregon and Washington coast? Oh, how about the halibut fishery in Alaska??? Actions have consequence. What is an acidic ocean to do??? Article aside, there are problems.
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Old 11-07-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Wellguys, I'm going to make the very short leap off the pier of logic.

The only entity that can weild enough juristiction and leverage to change the equation is the Federal governments of the various countries. Look at your own and try and see who is weakening environmental protection and oppose those who do.

I/we/you may not like that, but it is the only logical way. Strong Federal protection of our waters, restriction, fines, regulations.

Splash.
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Last edited by Sal Paradise; 11-07-2013 at 09:17 PM.
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

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Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
I/we/you may not like that, but it is the only logical way. Strong Federal protection of our waters, restriction, fines, regulations.

Splash.
Yep. Even though I lean far into libertarian territory, I believe that the federal government should be very powerful in protecting our environment. Clearly, the "free market" has failed in this area and really has no way of succeeding. For instance, copper mining/refining is extremely toxic. We all use lots of copper, but how many of us buy copper directly? So how can the consumer have any market power to wield on copper producers? Only through a collective body.
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  #40  
Old 11-07-2013
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Re: The Ocean is broken? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Wellguys, I'm going to make the very short leap of the pier of logic.

I/we/you may not like that, but it is the only logical way. Strong Federal protection of our waters, restriction, fines, regulations.

Splash.
You can never regulate a solution to a problem. There is a speed limit on the highway and driving down the road today I would say there are more people disregarding the regulation than those who are following the law.

That is not a logical solution as if it were, they could regulate it as far as making it illegal to sail any boat on any waterway and we would still be facing a problem. The problem is more the stuff we consume on land and has very little to do with guys in the stink pot throwing their trash and pumping their head in the water.

If you have ever travelled to a third-world country, you saw piles of trash and poverty. These people have enough problem finding a meal and cleaning up is not top of their list and regulation enforcement only applies to people or companies who can afford to pay the fine, WHICH does not go to cleaning up, but another tax revenue for the government. The only thing that cleans up the land is a big storm, which washes it into the ocean.

The only near term solution to the problem is each of us doing our part to clean up after everyone else.

If you wanted to add another regulation, why not a community service requirement for welfare or unemployment? Even disability when someone is actually able to help their community. Why not more community service requirements for those caught breaking the already thousands of pages of regulations instead of fines that just are just another general fund tax.

If you wanted to solve the problems why not have the EPA actually use the fees and fines it collects to actually clean up the waterways? Why not instead of huge fees to drill in the Gulf of Mexico, they just require that they clean up 3 old wells and platforms before drilling another one?

It is human nature to strive for power and as long as human nature exists, there will be no collective governmental effort to solve this problem, so it is up to you and me, my friend, to do our own part.
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