Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect. - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree8Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-03-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brazil
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
grafare is on a distinguished road
Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

Hello there,
I have recently made a decision to leave the cities and the continent behind and start living onboard and single hand circumnavigate the globe in a never-ending voyage. I have some sailing and open sea experience, because I am former navy officer, but not good for my personal standards and especially not enough for such project. So it is my intention to set sail in about 4 years, which will give me time to do whatever necessary, including building my own sailboat. I have been Reading various forums about several different topics, ranging from boat size to project designers, and the pros and cons of buying (a commercial or a used one) or building.
Well, opinions vary as everything in life! Therefore, since I have time, I decided to build my own. It will also allow me to get well-familiarized will the details and places of everything that will form my home to be for the coming years.
Now I need to select the project. Again, there are so many variations and I weighting them all to form my own opinion. As of now, I decided for a mono steel hull, ranging from 28-45 foots, with movable keel, center cockpit and preferable a pilothouse. Lifting keels seems to be a nice to have in some occasions to preserve the boat, but I am not sure yet what could be the cons. To be decided…..
So far, I came across two lists of designers/naval architects and checked the pages of a few. Not all of them sell plans and a significant smaller number sell pre-cut kits. As of now, I have selected 3 names: Bruce Roberts, Van de Stadt and Roberto Barros. For each of them I found good and not so good reviews.
I don’t want to mess things around here, and I know that I am running the risk of start a very long thread on something that has been debated for years, but could you please help me selecting a good project designer/naval architect and a project model?
Best,
Guilherme
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 01-03-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,860
Thanks: 34
Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 3
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

Have you entertained aluminum? The boreal 46 has gotten great write ups and was designed to do exactly what you want to do. H.S. Friend of my wife just got one and is pleased. If you're loaded look at K + M. as well. Dystra,N.A. would be a good designer.
If you're committed to steel speak with Van Meer.
My 2cents
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 01-03-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brazil
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
grafare is on a distinguished road
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

Well, I am not loaded, but is hard to put a price tag to your dream and selected way of life....LOL

Aluminum seems to be tricky to find labour and parts in some remote places of the world, it is not as durable as steel.

I never heard of those designers you mentioned, could you provide more info about them, their websites and etc?

Yes, I am commited to steel.
Brent Swain likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 01-03-2014
Captainmeme's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 806
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Captainmeme is on a distinguished road
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

There is Brent Swain of BC Canada who contributes to this forum.
Brent Swain likes this.
__________________
No such thing as a free cat, and that goes for boats as well.
Nor'sea 27
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 01-03-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,193
Thanks: 21
Thanked 100 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 11
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

Not much sense in talking about a boat between 28 to 45ft. That is a huge difference. If you have the money for the bigger boat go to a boat between 43 and 45ft, so money is the determinant factor. One a good boat with a good finish, an one off designed expressly by a Na, the difference in price between an Aluminium boat and steel one should not be more than 10% and I am quite sure that almost any NA will recommend aluminium to you.

A good quality custom boat of that size should cost between USD 500 000 and USD 800 000.

If this is inside your budget we can talk about it, if not you can try one of the voyage boats that exist on the market, like the Boreal that Outbound mentioned or the Allures or the OVNI. That should bring the price to a bit less that the lower number but not much, if we are talking about a boat ready to voyage.

If we are talking about a lot less, like 1/3 of that then probably an option would be going to an heavy steel 36ft, the kind Brent Swain design and build. not very pretty or fast but able to do the job.

So, as you sea, budget for a boat is a fundamental piece of information.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 01-03-2014 at 01:53 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 01-03-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brazil
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
grafare is on a distinguished road
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

Thanks. My comments:
1. Size: It is my intention to have the bigger boat possible that I can single hand it. After all, it will be my home and some comfort is never too much. I have indicated from 28 to 45 ft, because I am sure yet of what would be the proper size. Opinions differ, some say that a boat bigger than 40 might be trick to maneuver under bad weather, others that with proper equipment and a good project a 60+ boat can be single handed under the same situation.

2. Steel versus Aluminum: I believe there are pros and cons for each one. So far, steel seem to be better in terms of durability (with epoxy and other treatments it can last forever), maintenance (it is possible to find steel worker in every corner of the world, and if not, fixing is not a big deal) and security. In addition, nowadays it is possible to find steel alloys that are more resistant and lighter than traditional steel, so a thinner steel could be used to reduce the overall weight.

3. Price: Around USD 500k sounds to be a nice round number, however I will work hard to accomplish my goal with less. However, I need to point out that import taxes in Brazil can easily double it, and importing a second hand boat is not possible to my country.

Best,
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 01-03-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,076
Thanks: 6
Thanked 55 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

With that high of an import duty, don't import it to Brazil. Just create an overseas holding company as the owner.

Frankly I think you are going about this all wrong. You need to sit down and figure out what you want to do, where you want to go, and how many people you want with you, then look to see if there are used boats that meet your needs. A good used boat can be had for a fraction of the price of a new built.

Once you have a few years sailing, then go to a NA and have a custom boat designed if you choose. But frankly at this point I don't think you have a clear enough idea of what you need to really begin this process.

As for steel vs aluminium. It has been beat to death on this forum and others. But there is a reason that there are vanishingly few production steel sailboats being built.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 01-03-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brazil
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
grafare is on a distinguished road
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

Sometimes this is the way to go, but creating an offshore company is not a solution. It might even increase the problem and make it more expensive if the tax authorities decide that you are doing this to avoid taxes. Thanks for you remarks. I will consider them with good care. Best,
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 01-03-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,193
Thanks: 21
Thanked 100 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 11
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

If you are not going to sail in Brazil what is the problem? I meet two years ago on the med a Brazilian family sailing and living on a Amel. They were living in France for the winter. I think you can also have double nationality (Portuguese/Brazilian) and can have fixed residence in Portugal (in the boat). Flying a Portuguese banner you can buy a new boat in Portugal with a tax of 23% or can buy a used boat on all EC without any tax (if the boat has already the tax payed, that is what is more normal).

As you are going to be travelling that should not be a problem, except maybe bringing the boat to Brazil on a permanent bases. But a production aluminium sailboat keep a high resale value and you can always sell it when you decide to return definitively to Brazil.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 01-03-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brazil
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
grafare is on a distinguished road
Re: Help choosing the project and the designer/naval architect.

Unfortunately I don't have a double citzenship nor I can apply to one. Otherwise it could be a good idea to reduce taxes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seeking information on a naval architect Delong!!!! AKDragonfly General Discussion (sailing related) 1 01-02-2014 12:58 AM
SEEKING: Naval Architect Services 1833usmc General Discussion (sailing related) 15 01-09-2012 02:42 PM
naval architect PeterSailer Boat Review and Purchase Forum 23 04-12-2011 10:25 PM
'Out-of-the-box' naval architect - San Diego Union Tribune NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-13-2007 07:15 AM
Naval Architect Search NealePayne General Discussion (sailing related) 0 01-28-2001 04:20 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:25 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.