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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
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  #11  
Old 08-30-2006
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Zevirii is on a distinguished road
I know my skill level and cash level will prevent me from taking a long cruise in the near future. I simple want my wife to enjoy going out every free day we have, yet she looks at it like a chore to go. She enjoys herself once out there, but getting her to go out every week is a pain. I try and go by myself, but she throws a fit and makes me stay home. Partly because my skill set is still newbie. My kids are 2ys and 5 months. The youngest stays with a sitter, and the 2yr old loves the boat.

I would be happy to sail a few hours a week and 1 weekend(2days+) stay on boat per month. But my ultimate goal is to convince her to liveaboard. I have looked at several 34ft - 50ft boats that we could afford, but she continues to bring the "too small living space" thing up. She wants alot of space, but doesn't want to maintain a big space. I am trying to explain to her sometimes less is more. Plus living aboard means easier access to cruising one day when my skills and family are ready.

So as you can see, I am not trying to jump the gun right into cruising tomorrow, but rather want to take steps to increase our time on boat. Main goal would be to liveaboard, which would lead to 1 to 3 month cruises. As far as the going now comment I made, it is more the time is right. My kids are young and aren't involved in school or activities yet. When looking for my current boat, I talked to several people that are parents that were selling due to not having the free time to even get to the lake due to soccer/dance/piano/etc... They settled into there careers and everything got kinda locked into place. I am not yet in my career of choice, so before I reach that "trap" for the next 30 years of my life, I want to adventure/explore. Even travel if she would let me.

Last edited by Zevirii; 08-30-2006 at 01:51 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2006
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Zevirii—

A lot of those concerns about space, downsizing, etc. are addressed in the Changing Course book. There are basically three types of people out cruising—sailing from place to place and living aboard.

1) Young people, who haven't gotten the whole career thing going, and are going out to sail before they get caught in the whole career routine. Many of these people do not return to a "normal" lifestyle. These people are usually on a limited budget and on a smaller boat.

2) Middle-aged people, who take off a few years to take a break from the routine of their lives, to explore, travel, see parts of the world while they are still able to enjoy it. Most of these people are on sabbaticals, or extended leaves. Many of them do return to a "normal" life. Generally, these people are on a larger boat, and have a larger budget as well. Often, they bring their children along.

3) Older people, who have retired and decided to downsize drastically, and want to spend the early part of their retirement seeing the world, and sailing around, until they are no longer capable of doing so. Many of these people also never really return to a "normal" life ashore. These people may be on different size boats, based on their abilities, health, resources, etc. Their budgets vary, depending on their resources as well. Often, they invite family members—childrren, grandchildren along for short periods of time, but generally do not have them along for the ride, as the middle-aged group often does.

I hope this helps a bit. Read the book... Even if it is a bit further than you are currently considering, it makes some very good points, and may answer a lot of your questions, as well as those of your wife.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 08-30-2006 at 02:45 AM.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2006
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The only consolation to our friend Zevirii may be that his case is a rule and not the exception. On the other hand, a charter cruise in warmer climates (be carefull to choose the right season, not hot and humid/wet or hurricanes either!) will present a more pleasant aspect of sailing.
My advice is not to confront your wife, but try to work out a compromise. It's better to sacrifice a part of your sailing ambitions/dreams in exchange for her participation in some of your outings and assure peace at home. In the course of time, you both build experience (=confidence) and you gradually transform your ideas into concrete (new?) way of life.
BE PATIENT and you will fulfil what you wish and expect so much.
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I was lucky even though my girl and I met online, I guessed we were in the same sailing club. However I didn't tell her. Then real lucky when she said yes to selling her house and taking a cruise. We did charter for a week in St. Martin and she loved it. The real test was for 2 years on a Caribbean cruise ,my first mate, myself, an overgrown Sringer Spaniel and a 13 year cranky siamese cat on a Cal 33. We all passed!
Now back in the USA adjusting, getting a job, bought a house in the South and Cal 33 up for sale....Got Married!!! Yea!!!

Last edited by chuck711; 08-30-2006 at 05:30 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrondi
My advice is not to confront your wife, but try to work out a compromise. It's better to sacrifice a part of your sailing ambitions/dreams in exchange for her participation in some of your outings and assure peace at home. In the course of time, you both build experience (=confidence) and you gradually transform your ideas into concrete (new?) way of life.
BE PATIENT and you will fulfil what you wish and expect so much.
This is what the book says in large part.

Hey Chuck-

Congrats.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #16  
Old 08-30-2006
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I talked to her last night after the kids went to bed. Her main concerns are:

1.Space: cramped small area to live in.
2.Cost: Where we would get the cash to go cruising, or why I think we could save money living aboard.
3. Livingaboard: Kids have no place to play, and are stuck inside all the time. Plus them falling in the water if they get out of the cabin once they get older.
4. Moving away from parents: Parents are currently getting to involved in our lives for both of us, and we have talked about moving away to get some space, but she still thinks that our children need to see alot of them.
5. Changing Jobs: We have both worked in a factory for 9yrs now, and we are both burnt out, but we make good money so its hard to move to another place and change jobs.
6. Whim: She thinks this is just another whim of mine that will just pass in a few months. Because of this she is not willing to change her whole life for me. I have had some crazy whims in the past I must admit, but nothing this big or indepth.

So because of these reasons I think time is the best solution. I am just going to have to persue my interest in sailing when ever I get the chance, and maybe in a year or so from now, she will see this is not just another "whim", but a serious lifestyle that I think I would love. Until then hopefully I can do weekend to week long trips on our current boat and lake. I am kinda tempted to name my boat "Whimsical" now because of our talk. Just for laughs.
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Many of the cruising books address those same issues: Space, Cost, Living aboard with children, moving away, and changing careers/lifestyles.

Naming your boat "Whimsical" might be funny, might back fire...

Before you make any decisions, do some research first. Get the facts, and learn what your options are. Also, learn what the arguments for and against a "cruising" lifestyle are, as well as what the reasons for going cruising are.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #18  
Old 08-30-2006
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Burnout is a good reason for a major getaway and change of pace. But I think burnout is also more common because if you have that well-paying job (and at this point some seniority at it) they are getting harder to find and replace.

The issues of kids being bored or sunsafe on the boat..well..there are the books others have mentioned, and I'd suggest asking you local library if they can bring them in (many have interlibrary loan systems) since they probably won't be in stock and books can be pricey these days.

Something that might be a win-win situation would be to leave the kids with the grandparents for a weekend, or two long days, while the two of you sneak off for some formal sailing lessons, which should bolster your skills and confidence AND give you a break from some of the routine grind. Everyone gets some fun out of that, and it should cost way less than a trip to DisneyWorld.

One way to tell if something is a whim or not, is to pick a timeframe. Six months? A year? And decide what to do during that time, vs. when it has passed.

I think anyone who has spent time on boats would tell your wife that sailing can be a great thing for kids. It teaches many skills, imbues a mindset that is all too absent from regular life in the US today. You can't just go to the 7-11 for a gallon of milk at 9PM on a boat, so you learn to budget the groceries and plan ahead. "Mom, I don't want that for dinner. There's nothing in the fridge!" Well...here's the icebox, there's the ocean, let's make the best of it and you can help plan it better next time. But throwing a fit? Won't work on the ocean. And that 7-11 or McBurger joint isn't getting closer any faster.

You can't just sail off without checking the weather (plan ahead) and if you leave something on deck and the boat tacks, it is either broken or overboard, with no way to replace it. So you learn situational awareness (something that's pretty much lost today) and responsibility. And when you do the little things, like trim a sail "just right", you get the feedback from what you've done there too. Want the boat to sail fast or smooth? You learn that it doesn't matter what or how you feel about the others in the crew, either you pull together and make it work--or it doesn't work. You learn teamwork in a way that Little League or school team sports just doesn't teach it.

There's a lot of magic in what sailing does to the sailor. Mention sailing and racing in a resume or interview, and it passes right over the heads of most people. But if they've also done it--you score immediate points, because they know some of the things you've learned, and they know those things pay off in life and business.

There are worse things a kid can learn, and be exposed to, on land.
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Old 08-30-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astraeus
I see my wife even more interested the more she learns and the more she does on the boat.
Many couples go out sailing, but only the husband is actually Sailing, while the wife is on "kid watch". The Best way to enthusiast your partner is to engage her in the fun of sailing, as it is a very fun and challanging sport.
The only time I put the rags up is when we can leave the small ones home with granny(god bless her)

E.
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Old 08-30-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevirii
So because of these reasons I think time is the best solution. I am just going to have to persue my interest in sailing when ever I get the chance, and maybe in a year or so from now, she will see this is not just another "whim", but a serious lifestyle that I think I would love.
I think you're on the right track, but look out for the "I" statements...

At the moment, my wife loves sailing as much as I, and she's not going to let me get ASA certifications that she doesn't have, so we're both budging time and money for the 105 and 106 certifications next summer (offshore prep). Given her enthusiasm over the last 18 months, I don't think her interest is going to fade, but she's serious about being well-prepared if we have the kids along, meaning that we won't have an offshore boat before we have real experience.

Now, if I rolled the clock back to when my son was 2 and my daugher 5 months old, none of this would be occurring. I doubt I could have even managed to buy or own a boat. As much as my wife likes sailing today, our focus was really on the kids when they were so young.

Just an opinion-- but I don't think we would have been super comfortable doing any sort of week-long cruises until our kids were five years old and up. Other families sail with newborns, other moms are fine with two year-olds aboard, but in our case five was the number. Until then, we did more kid-centered vacations and weekend stuff. I don't have regrets-- kids grow up wicked fast anyway, so really the break from certain things is minor in the long run.

So, take your time. Enjoy the sub-three years. It'll all be a memory soon.

Meanwhile, I need to go hop in the car and drive to our boat. We're taking out the kids and two members of my wife's club for a sail tonight.

Jim H
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