Anchoring in Florida - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 12-03-2006
Jerry & Linda
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
AlwaysFORSAIL is on a distinguished road
Right on EBS001. I lived in ft Myers bech for the past eight years and it seemed as though quite a bit of effort was directed towards limiting cruisers access to anchorages and the shore. This a very positive move. Thanks for the info.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 02-09-2009
No Agenda
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: aboard No Agenda
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
noagenda is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to noagenda Send a message via Yahoo to noagenda
I hate to start a new thread, especially as a 'newbie' here, but...
I'm currently anchored in the basin just S of the Lantana bridge... MM1031, and have been directed by the local police boat to go ashore and secure a permit in order to stay any longer than the 18 hours he gave us.
This morning I went ashore, and walked the mile or so to the Police Station, where I was charged $50 for a permit to anchor here. The language of this permit is so ambiguous as to lend itself to myriad interpretations. The dates I filled in this document actually allow me to anchor here for a 96 hour period every 30 days for a year's time. At least that's how I filled out the dates. I now have a signed and dated document allowing me to do so.
I'm sure there are other people here who have been confronted with this dilemma. Do I stay here and pay the money, or do I just leave and avoid the confrontation certain to develop. Seems that most have opted for the latter, as the office people in the Police Station here couldn't remember when another boater had filed for the permit, and had trouble finding the form itself.
Based on the 2006 legislation, it is dubious as to whether their collecting such a fee has a legal basis anyway. I have to admit, I may have just fueled the fire by paying my money, but at least I can stay here for four days without fear of harrassment.
I would like to know if there is either a support group or some collective concious relative to this problem... We here on 'No Agenda' have been on 'extended cruise' for nearly a year, and likely will find ourselves in such a quandry again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 02-09-2009
cruising all I can
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,112
Thanks: 3
Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 8
joethecobbler is on a distinguished road
try this atty. she seems to be knowledgable on this topic.
Subject: Stuart anchoring victory
Cruising News: I am the attorney who prosecuted the Stuart case. I'll send the article I wrote regarding the case in a separate email when you respond to this. There are significant differences between the Stuart and Marco case. Attached are the details in the article I wrote for BoatUS magazine. I filed a federal civil rights law suit, Marco went the county court route. A federal civil rights suit is expensive for a city to defend, the judges are more knowledgeable on maritime law, and the civil rights action yields rights to attorney fees and damages for the successful plaintiff. I got fast results with this suit: filed in March, settlement in May.
Barb Cook



After two defeats, the third time was a win for local boater Vincent Sibilla, who was cited in January, 2008, by the city of Stuart, Florida, for violations of its anchoring ordinances. Sibilla ran afoul of the law by anchoring his vessel, the "Katie J", continuously for more than 10 days in the Okeechobee Waterway within city limits. The Stuart ordinance, enacted in 2003, provided that "it shall be unlawful for any person to anchor or leave at anchor in the navigable waters of the city a nonliveaboard vessel that is no longer exercising the rights of navigation." The ordinance further provides that a vessel "continuously anchored for more than ten consecutive days is presumptively no longer exercising the rights of navigation." Violation of the ordinance is classified as a criminal misdemeanor punishable by a fine up to $500 or imprisonment up to 60 days or both, with each day of violation constituting a separate offense.
In his previous unsuccessful run-ins with the city over its anchoring ordinances, Mr. Sibilla was represented by public defenders unfamiliar with maritime law. This time Mr. Sibilla hooked up with Stuart law firm Guy Yudin & Foster, LLP, with the litigation led by long-time cruiser and maritime attorney Barbara Cook. Ms. Cook agreed to represent Sibilla pro bono. According to Ms. Cook, "This ordinance clearly violated federal and state law, not only with respect to the definition of a vessel "in navigation", but also with respect to prohibited local government regulation of the Okeechobee Waterway, with respect to imposition of prohibited criminal and excessive sanctions for violation, and with respect to city procedures to adjudicate violations."
Mr. Sibilla may not have much money, but he had a nice recreational boat which he anchored in the Okeechobee Waterway within the city limits, not interfering with navigation, outside the city’s mooring field, for more than 10 days at a time. He was cited with a criminal misdemeanor, ordered to appear before a city magistrate, faced jail time and excessive fines, all of which violate state law.
Florida Statute section 327.60, amended for clarification in 2006, specifies in its two sections what is impermissible boating regulation on a local level. The first section provides that local governments may not adopt any ordinance or local law relating to operation and equipment of vessels applicable to the Florida Intracoastal Waterway1 and only when not in conflict with other sections of Chapter 327. The second section prohibits local governmental authorities from regulating anchoring outside of mooring fields of non-live-aboard vessels in navigation. Another applicable section of Chapter 327 is section 327.73(2)(k), which specifies that violations relating to restricted areas and speed limits established by local governmental authorities pursuant to section 327.60 are noncriminal infractions and states "Any person cited for a violation of any such provision shall be deemed to be charged with a noncriminal infraction, shall be cited for such an infraction, and shall be cited to appear before the county court. The civil penalty for any such infraction is $50, except as otherwise provided in this section. ... Any person charged with a noncriminal infraction under this section may pay the civil penalty, either by mail or in person, within 30 days of the date of receiving the citation ... " In accordance with section 327.74, regarding uniform boating citations, " the (Fish and Wildlife Conservation) commission shall prepare, and supply to every law enforcement agency in this state which enforces the laws of this state regulating the operation of vessels, an appropriate form boating citation containing a notice to appear (which shall be issued in prenumbered books with citations in quintuplicate) and meeting the requirements of this chapter or any laws of this state regulating boating, which form shall be consistent with the state's county court rules and the procedures established by the commission."
Regarding what constitutes a vessel "in navigation", the U.S. Supreme court in a 2005 decision, Stewart v. Dutra2, clearly stated that a vessel, once launched and placed in navigation, remains "in navigation" as long as it is "used, or capable of being used for maritime transportation on water...." The Supreme court stated that "... "in navigation" ... is an element of the vessel status of a water craft. It is relevant to whether the craft is "used, or capable of being used" for maritime transportation. A ship long lodged in a drydock or shipyard can again be put to sea, no less than one permanently moored to shore or the ocean floor can be cut loose and made to sail. The question remains in all cases whether the watercraft's use ‘as a means of transportation on water’ is a practical possibility or merely a theoretical one." Ms. Cook said that all of the firm’s lawyers united to develop a litigation strategy which would make the city swiftly recognize the seriousness of its errors. As a result, Ms. Cook filed a federal civil rights lawsuit alleging violation of Mr. Sibilla’s federal substantive and procedural due process rights, abuse of process, and malicious prosecution, and sought an immediate injunction and declaration by the district court for the Southern District of Florida as to Sibilla’s civil rights. The civil rights violations and other allegations, if proven, merit award of attorney fees and damages for Sibilla. If an immediate injunction was not obtained, Sibilla faced a city trial and potential incarceration well before the federal court could rule on the allegations in the federal suit. "When the city attorneys and commissioners received my emailed complaint and motion for injunction, they quickly realized that defending the federal suit would be costly for the city and initiated settlement discussions. Although it took awhile to educate the city as to the law, we prevailed and settled the suit on May 16. In the settlement, the city agreed to suspend enforcement of the ordinance until revised to comport with state and federal maritime law, including the definition of "in navigation" and the extent of the Okeechobee Waterway, to provide adequate in-service training to its law enforcement personnel regarding applicable law and procedures, and to apologize to Mr. Sibilla. The city also paid a token amount of attorney fees and damages to Sibilla to settle the suit. In their letter of apology, the city thanked Sibilla and our law firm for our time and any inconvenience and in helping insure that boating activities can be enjoyed in Stuart."

In conclusion, non-liveaboard3 cruising boats can now anchor in Stuart municipal waters as long as they anchor outside the mooring field.

1 Florida Administrative Code 68D-23.103(k)(2) defines the Florida Intracoastal Waterway as including "all waters from shoreline to shoreline within the Okeechobee Waterway, Stuart to Fort Myers"

2 Stewart v. Dutra Const. Co., 543 U.S. 481 (2005)

3 Florida Statute 327.02(17) "Live-aboard vessel" means: (a) Any vessel used solely as a residence; or (b) Any vessel represented as a place of business, a professional or other commercial enterprise, or a legal residence.

Barbara Cook, Esq., Board Certified Admiralty and Maritime Law
GUY, YUDIN, & FOSTER, LLP
STUART, FLORIDA
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 02-11-2009
No Agenda
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: aboard No Agenda
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
noagenda is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to noagenda Send a message via Yahoo to noagenda
Joe... Thanks for the relevant information about the anchoring issue.
I plan to scan the agreement into my files and forward a copy to Barb Cook just to see if there is a 'polite' way to help the Town of Lantana get up to speed with the State Law.
I'm not interested in getting my money back, it's just the principle of having to pay every municipality along the way just for the priveledge of anchoring near their 'resources', for lack of a better word. We need to point out that we do indeed participate in the local economy when we stop.
But, before I become too long winded (sail pun) on the subject, I'll see if there is some form or printable packet to present to the local authorities when being confronted. Maybe Barb Cook can help with that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 02-11-2009
cruising all I can
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,112
Thanks: 3
Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 8
joethecobbler is on a distinguished road
I hope it works for you.
Here in the Daytona,Fl. area (Specifically South Daytona) there seems to be a bit of drama being played out .there are a growing number of boats (sail as well as power) appearing at the local achoring spots (the numbes doubled in just the last year) I anchor here and sail as often as weather and time allow. I make an effort to "lurk" and "Stalk" the Halifax River area from land as well as the water on an almost daily schedule observing the transients as well as the local "extended Cruisers" anchored and anchoring often availing myself to assist in local general knowledge as well as the occasional lift to get fuel,provisions ,etc. for cruisers.
In the course of my encounters I have made a point to become familiar with most of the local Marine Patrol and FWC,sherriff,local police authority and observe the dealings and listen to the complaints and concerns of the landlubbers as well as the Boaters.
I try to keep all perspectives in , well .... perspective.
Although I have to say that the news, print as well as TV. seem to often portray the Boaters in a less than favorable light and offer no opportunity for rebuttal. Recently the S. Daytona Police chief attempted to wright a local ordinance restricting anchoring and it was almost comical , I like to think I played a small part in helping to STOP this ordinance by making the Maritime ATTY. Barbara Cook from Stuart aware of the proposed ordinance as she informed them it wasn't going to fly.
So, I continue to observe and objectively listen to both sides of the issue.
When I speak w/ law enforcement I ask what the problems are and often hear - waste disposal, derelict/unregistered vessel, anchor lighting ,noise, and eyesore view.
My feelings are ALL those issues are already regulated by existing laws and more restrictions are not needed. Just an implimentation of the current laws will address all of the issues raised.
I'm afraid the issue will continue to "fester" and,If broad reaching changes ARE made to florida anchoring allowing local ordinance and restrictions it will effectively force many to leave florida or leave boating, as the cost of a slip is beyond the financial means of many whom enjoy boating, sailing ,and anchoring responsibly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 02-11-2009
cruising all I can
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,112
Thanks: 3
Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 8
joethecobbler is on a distinguished road
One other thing, the day before yesterday one of the "extended Cruisers" came ashore in S. Daytona to Veterans Park and boat ramp, secured his dingy at approx. 9-10am and walked to west marine for whatever etc. upon returning to the launch/park (approx, 1-2pm) to find his dingy gone ! ( the local police came and called the city workers and instructed them to take it away) I had operatives (spies) at the park whom informed me as it was taking place and I spoke w/ the owner of the dingy and urged him to call the police and ask whats up ! He did and as of yesterday I was told that the dingy was going to be returned w/out issue. I have not yet confirmed the return as of this morning ( I'll have to call my fellow water-lurkers for an update).
It seems to be a battle of wills.
who needs daytime TV w/ all this going on !
Seriously though , it is an issue for everyone boating,cruising, as well as those living on the waterfront.
If this is of interest to any of the sailnet comunity I would be happy to start a thread or even a blog where people can go to to post comments and or photos. Or, if not we can all jut stand idle and let other influences determine the fate of anchoring freely and responsibly, after all, those most removed from boating are probably better equiped to make decisions for us ! (note; sarcasm added by poster)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 02-11-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wherever
Posts: 5,264
Thanks: 8
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 11
xort has a spectacular aura about xort has a spectacular aura about xort has a spectacular aura about
joecob

thanks for your efforts.
I think a blog would be a great idea, keeping a running record of what's going on
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 03-15-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Miami (for now)
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mbradl is on a distinguished road
Current Legislative session may allow Municipalities to restrict anchoring legally

I am a member of a new non-profit group - Florida Open Water Society (FOWS). We have volunteers in Tallahassee now proposing amendments to the current proposition - Bill 1423 which would allow municipalities to ban anchoring once they have installed mooring fields (most look as if they would be for-profit). Check out floridaopenwatersociety.org for more information on contacting state representatives. Make your first call to the bill's sponsor - Representative Troutman 850 488 9465. The League of Cities are looking to amend the proposition to remove oversight by FWC (Florida Wildlife Conservation) so don't limit your contact to FWC. Calling as many representatives as possible (phone calls are harder to ignore than emails), will keep the bill from reincarnating as an "amendment" in another committee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 03-15-2009
whroeder's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
whroeder is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by noagenda View Post
I plan to scan the agreement into my files and forward a copy to Barb Cook just to see if there is a 'polite' way to help the Town of Lantana get up to speed with the State Law.
If you don't, I suggest sueing to get that permit fee back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 03-18-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Miami (for now)
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mbradl is on a distinguished road
Troutman Concedes 1423 Needs Further Refining

03/18/2009

Check in at floridaopenwatersociety.org for how Tallahassee is responding to Boaters insistence that anchoring rights be preserved. Do a few follow-up calls to propose changes - allowance for mooring permits - Harbour Masters in larger anchorages who could (among other things) assist with removal of derelict vessels. Revisions are planned for next Tuesday so get some imput in !
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boot Key Harbor Marathon Florida lowryjim Living Aboard 3 11-11-2003 08:38 PM
Heading North toVirgina from Florida wakai Crew Wanted/Available 1 04-09-2003 08:21 PM
South Florida marinas for living aboard derekh Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 3 04-02-2002 09:45 AM
Charter-Vacation / West Florida ??? JMR Chartering 5 02-06-2001 04:42 PM
Marinas from Charleston to Florida tgreider Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 4 11-23-2000 10:40 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:02 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.