The Cruising Life, by Jim Trefethen, and Cruising Financials - Page 12 - SailNet Community

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  #111  
Old 03-07-2009
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Hi Chall03,

Yep. After launching next year, we'll head south (Keys, most likely) and do a shake down cruise and spend a little time doing the usual places like the Bahamas, Caribiean, Cuba, etc.

Quidam is also being built for crossing the Atlantic to Europe. Winter in Greece one year, Turkey the next, and so on. Bruce built a garage of sorts behind the bench seat on the forward deck so we can carry folding bikes and a small motorcycle for deeper into the countryside backpacking (cheap).

We even got a plan for noisy neighbors... We're gonna carry Bani chickens and a rooster that crows at the crack of dawn.

So you like Mojito's. I posted this on another thread but here's our recipe...

Quote:
The Ultimate Mojito

2 oz. Ron Matusalem Gran Reserve Rum
Fresh-squeezed juice of Ĺ lime, muddled with 3 Fresh mint sprigs
1 ľ oz. * Cuban-style simple syrup
2 oz. Club Soda

Muddle (crush) lime & mint leaves in the bottom of a
shaker, add remaining ingredients, shake & pour into
an ice-filled highball glass.

*Cuban-style simple syrup - 1 part Raw Turbinado Sugar to 1 part water dissolved over heat. It's the KEY to making the best tasting drinks.
(we own a beverage catering business barsonwheels.com)

Last edited by quidam1947; 03-07-2009 at 06:35 AM.
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  #112  
Old 03-07-2009
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Ok now that is definitely getting printed and going into our boat recipe book!

Your cruising plans sound just fantastic. A rooster is a great idea for dealing with the neighbours, I love it!
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  #113  
Old 03-07-2009
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Our story??

To pick an option from Jim's original post, we are no 1). Possibly followed by 2 and then 3

We are still fairly young and I have wanted to go cruising for about 6 years. I figure there is a good chance it is not a phase im about to grow out of anytime soon. My wife needs no convincing, she is as good a sailor as I, around the cans probably better.

We can't wait for retirement, so the plan is a 1-2 year 'sabbatical' in about 1-2 years time. For this to work it means that we will have to do it Pardey style. 'Go small, go now'. We will however most probably have refrigeration and a diesel

After that who knows?? Probably a retirement cruise would follow later on, it seems like a long way off for us at the moment, but we can't think of anything else we would want to spend our retirement doing....

What are we doing at the moment?? Working like crazy to build the kitty, sailing on weekends and longer when we can on our current boat. We are also researching and looking for the boat to take us on our first 'serious' cruising adventure. That is where the economics are messing us around.....trying to figure out how much to spend at this stage of our lives, in 'the global economic downturn' is hard.
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Last edited by chall03; 03-07-2009 at 07:39 AM.
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  #114  
Old 03-07-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xort View Post
OK, you didn't direct it to anybody here..it sounded like that.

But $5,000 / year?

We think we need about $35,000 to cruise comfortably including food, insurance, some dockage, fuel, and repairs/maintenance. I hope I'm over on the numbers, maybe we only need $25,000. But I seriously doubt we can do it for less than that.

One also has to plan on inflation. It will hit us probably pretty hard after all this stuff is over. That's the only way the govt can afford all this. But that's for a different thread.
I'm Canadian and seriously expect our dollar to leap about 40 cents U.S. in value when the world realizes the U.S. is printing its way to "recovery", which I interpret as "10 years of stagflation until all the crap debts are dealt with".

Having said that, we have two adults and one child proposing a five-year circ on a paid-for boat with about $20,000 in further services I can't do, or can't do well enough for the open ocean (like welding) and in gear (like RADAR, solar panels and batteries) to install or to retrofit before we go in 2011.

I expect that we will spend approximately $25K (assume Canadian/American money at par here) per year, of which $6,000-$8,000 will be fuel and maintenance. This may seem low, but the rather simple expedient of anchoring out consistently, the fact that a great deal of the boat's systems will be new (sea-tested, for we plan a trial trip to the Maritimes) or personally refurbished and simplified, plus the willingness to use the sails as much as possible (and carrying the means to repair and extend them) can save a great deal of money.

We may return only once in five years back to Canada. Not flying back and not having the cost of decommissioning and storing the boat on land is a great saving. We do anticipate one "prime and paint" haulout, likely in New Zealand, that might take a season in a yard.

We will be renting out the house (2 apartments, maybe $2,500 in and $500-$650 out in insurance, utilities, land taxes and "other" monthly) and we will be paying either my sister or one of my wife's brothers (he's a superintendent) to be "the face in the place" in order to collect rent, do light maintenance and to handle the bills.

We aren't relying on tenants for the cruising kitty. We are wanting them to cover the mortgage ($1,200/month). I will likely work while we are gone (I'm a writer and graphic designer) and expect to make maybe 18 months of the 5 x $25K worth of expediture while in transit. I'm setting that aspect of things up now.

I also expect to lower costs by doing some fabrication and fixing for other cruisers, as I will have a small workshop aboard that will carry the sort of tools I need for a steel boat (plus the means to power them), but aren't always practical to carry on a Beneteau, for instance. I suspect many of these sort of transactions will be "in kind", but that's fine: If I'm handed a case of 24 cans of top-end stew and a bottle of rum for two hours of putting in custom-cut backing plates or for beefing up an anchor roller or stitching together a mainsail split, that's a good cruising day for me and for my crew.

I look long and hard at various cruising narratives and blog, and even if I assume 25% of the stories told are either lies or prettied up beyond recognition, I don't think my numbers nor my game plan is particularly unrealistic. The fact is that a lot of people go cruising who are perhaps too old for it, too unskilled for it, too reliant on technological aspects of it, and who have a great fondness for "amenities".

Us, not so much. With me at 50, with a 37 year old wife and a 10 year old kid, we'll be relatively youthful in the cruising community, yet not suspiciously so! I expect opportunities to cut costs via small jobs will be available, and as I come from a marketing background, I know how to ask.

At base, however, the key to cruising economically is to extract oneself from the money economy in the first place. This can mean getting creative with stores, buying supplies when and where you find them cheaply, and getting used to trading with the locals.

It also helps to like fish. A lot. I do.
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  #115  
Old 03-07-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluwateronly View Post
What the frak do you spend so much money on. Come on you need a million dollars to go cruising. This is the kind of stuff that ticks me off, big time. I guess you have to be rich to sail, you need a quarter million dollar boat, all the lasted and greatest and must spend a ton of money at every port, refit the entire boat every few years. Do you rich folks think the rest of us live like that, well, we don't. If you have a good boat, some sense and don't expect to live higher than you do on land you can do it on a whole lot less. I will be watching the same sunset as you and will sail my boat like a true captain and not let her get into trouble and I can fish and fix my own stuff not spend a ton of money on bs stuff just sail the boat like the old guys did. Sorry, you will never stop me and I won't be doing it unsafe or endanger your million dollard yauht and I bet the locals will hang with me and have a great time. Yes, I am pissed.
Easy there Blu, don't judge others based on how they sail, cruise or live. The way you do it is great for you I'm sure, and more power to you. That said, you would be mighty offended if someone posted something along the lines that (i) older boats with faded gelcoat are eyesores and detract from otherwise beautiful anchorages; (ii) it's uncivilized to cruise on an old cheap boat with minimal electronics and no amenities, (iii) "camping out" is for people unwilling to work hard and just to cop out of responsible work, (iv) it's unfair to kids to deprive them of the benefits modern society, or (v) it's unsafe to eschew modern electronics and safety gear, and thus cost the rest of us money when the coasties need to save you because you were too cheap to buy a GPS.

You probably didn't see it that way, but your post was very similar to teh above, just the flip side of the same coin -- telling others how they should sail and being very critical if they don't do it your way.

Not at all trying to pick a fight with you, just pointing out there is a reason they make vanilla AND chocolate ice cream.
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  #116  
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Val

Sounds about right to me. I think the $25,000 is doable, except for the big question looming about inflation. I hope your calcs work for you.
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So dan, how many millions do you have?
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  #118  
Old 03-07-2009
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So dan, how many millions do you have?
Millions of what???
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  #119  
Old 03-07-2009
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See. I knew this was an interesting thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiente View Post
I'm Canadian and seriously expect our dollar to leap about 40 cents U.S. in value when the world realizes the U.S. is printing its way to "recovery", which I interpret as "10 years of stagflation until all the crap debts are dealt with".
I agree. I don't much care for the path that got us here, nor the path being cut to get us out. It will be all too painful for a lot of people.

Quote:
Having said that, we have two adults and one child proposing a five-year circ on a paid-for boat with about $20,000 in further services I can't do, or can't do well enough for the open ocean (like welding) and in gear (like RADAR, solar panels and batteries) to install or to retrofit before we go in 2011.
Sounds like a most excellent plan and your child will benefit greatly -- what a perfect age to start out on this adventure.

Quote:
I expect that we will spend approximately $25K (assume Canadian/American money at par here) per year, of which $6,000-$8,000 will be fuel and maintenance. This may seem low, but the rather simple expedient of anchoring out consistently, the fact that a great deal of the boat's systems will be new (sea-tested, for we plan a trial trip to the Maritimes) or personally refurbished and simplified, plus the willingness to use the sails as much as possible (and carrying the means to repair and extend them) can save a great deal of money...
AND... (redacting a few paragraphs here if you don't mind)
I also expect to lower costs by doing some fabrication and fixing for other cruisers, as I will have a small workshop aboard that will carry the sort of tools I need for a steel boat (plus the means to power them), but aren't always practical to carry on a Beneteau, for instance. I suspect many of these sort of transactions will be "in kind", but that's fine: If I'm handed a case of 24 cans of top-end stew and a bottle of rum for two hours of putting in custom-cut backing plates or for beefing up an anchor roller or stitching together a mainsail split, that's a good cruising day for me and for my crew..
Actually, this sounds very doable. Bruce will have workshop capabilities onboard and can even do a bit of welding & fabrication work. And, I'm taking currently taking a basic electronics in the hopes that I'll be able to facilitate our own electronics repairs, (maybe learn how to do a little canvas work too) and thus have the option of bartering with other cruisers for our skills, if opportunity should arise.



Quote:
At base, however, the key to cruising economically is to extract oneself from the money economy in the first place. This can mean getting creative with stores, buying supplies when and where you find them cheaply, and getting used to trading with the locals.

It also helps to like fish. A lot. I do.
DITTO all this for us, too.

I look forward to more cruising dialog with you here on SN.
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  #120  
Old 03-08-2009
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Well! Looks like we're in good company, except I don't want any more of it because I'm counting on my customer base having more money than sense and skills!

The bartering with other cruisers is one thing, but I expect to be bartering with the "natives" as we plan to go a little off the beaten track in the Pacific and Indian Oceans. One of the reasons to carry a Honda genset is that I can drill holes all day in concrete or wood with my 1/2" chuck Makita because I've brought my own power....power being the missing or highly restricted element in some distant anchorages. I figure that's good for a couple of pig roasts and a guided tour to the weird limestone caves if I throw in a box of pencils and a few novelty T-shirts.

I think the money economy of the West is largely a mistake in places where people basically work at subsistence levels of growing crops in plots and fishing the sea....and where there are few shops and maybe a ship once every three months. So I would much prefer to barter service for local goods, or for local service. This way, I avoid the money element as much as possible, and yet arguably do something of value that is valuable immediately and in context. If I have the only circular saw or bending jig or spare tarp grommets within 100 NM, I can do more good than slipping the village headman an American 20 dollar bill so I can drink kava with the boys.

My wife's a biologist with some medical training. That should translate well, too.
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