The Cruising Life, by Jim Trefethen, and Cruising Financials - Page 4 - SailNet Community

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  #31  
Old 12-01-2006
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Never mind the my boat is bigger than yours stuff.

I think some of the figures cited are a bit questionable. There seems some doubt as to what current inflation really is let alone predicting what it will be, with money supply growing at 8-10% pa. 5 million in 40 years may well be the cost of the average home based on the last 40.

It seems to me (setting aside the young person in a small boat working here and there scenario) there are two main options.

The mid-life two years or so time-out, and the older say twilight time.

For the first essentially one needs the money to live on plus I would think buy and equip the boat. Say $140-200K. I think the boat should be paid for preferably or the payments plus insurance allowed for and added. I think this should be expendable money not your capital.

At 60 or so you probably want the boat say 100k plus 150k minimum for say 5 years cruising including interest.

In both cases I would not advocate selling up everything to do it. Why? Because in retirement you probably need a pension plan, plus some cash to put jam on the bread, and a mortgage free home, which enables you to live on a pension.

Over 5 years or so to repurchase that home may well cost you 50% more, which is a sizeable chunk to pay off at that stage. Hence I think keeping some money in real estate is mandatory. The boat costs roughly 10% in annual costs, whereas property tends to produce some real return after inflation. Any money from the sale of the boat is offset by refitting costs, inflation etc. so I would largely discount it.

On a practical level I gather that most people setting out on a long-term cruise don't last 6 months. I suggest that part of this may be that women prefer a secure home base, certainly to return to. While some will take some time-out, children, grandchildren or careers tend to become issues. Hence in this country it is not unusual for a man to spend many years building a boat only to find that if he wants to go sailing it is on his own, with his share of the matrimonial property the wife having acquired other interests. Hence dreams are okay but being conservative show me the money.

Sure there is a small proportion who earn high money - they would hardly need to read this. Most don't and may even be squeezed by labour outsourcing to lower cost countries. Thus for most it will be smaller and older boats and probably cutting down on the McMansions and other spending that many consider required, to be able to afford it.


I don't see too much point in getting to say 65 and then finding one has say a few years before the health becomes an issue. But aiming for say 60 might be more achievable and rewarding. Of course it depends how far one wants to go. A few months in the Bahamas or Mexico is one thing. For that matter weekends or weeks with the kids in a small boat are great, but that is not the issue here.

Retiring early seems better to me than snuffing it and leaving one's money to the adult kids, so they can enjoy a higher standard of life than their parents ever did. They might go for a cruise themselves or more likely pay off the mortgage and spend it. Fortunately mine would prefer I enjoyed it.

Last edited by chris_gee; 12-01-2006 at 08:14 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-01-2006
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Smile Who wants to wait till they're 60!

I've been reading this thread and always enjoy hearing how others are clawing at the cruising lifestyle. One thing I keep coming across is people planning to go cruising at or near retirement, but WHO wants to wait that long (55 or older). I'm 26 years old and I want to go NOW. I'm afraid if I plan on going in retirement it'll never happen, family, health, life, will get in the way, and it'll be a dream that was always just that, a dream. Now I'm not saying 55 is old, but there is possibly a big difference between 55 and 65. I work in a hospital (nurse) and I see it all the time, young (50-69) people struck down with illness, and if they haven't done the things in life that they want to accomplish, well they may not get another chance. I first wanted to go cruising 5 years ago. So I figured on how to incorporated cruising into my life, first I needed a new career, one that was portable(work anywhere in the world), I could make my own hours and make at least what I was making at my then current job (pharmaceutical manufacturing), ~$49,000/year, you see I wasn't about to take a step down. Then I will just buy a boat to live/travel on, take 3 month assignments up and down the coast for 9 months a year then take three or more months a year to cruise. I'll still be saving for retirement, and when I get the boat paid for in a few years (since it'll be my only payment), maybe circumnavigate and work along the way. You see when I'm travelling I get a tax free housing allowance for the average rent in the area, I'll just take that and put straight to the boat, most travel companies pay between $1000-$2000 per month, depending on how expensive housing is. In St. Thomas it's about $4,000 a month. So not to get to long here, after five years, quitting a good job to work full time and go to school full time to start over, I'm almost there, buying a boat early next year and moving aboard. I found the perfect career that will allow me to cruise, and do it NOW, nursing, and it's great because I also get to really help people, and I enjoy that. Everyone has a different situation, but don't wait, my point is I lived in a land locked town five years ago, and in less than a year I'll be cruising. The older you are, the more assets you should have, so it should be a little easier for you to find a way to go, if even for just six months. You only get one chance at this game! Do it now while you can.
Brandon
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  #33  
Old 12-01-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_gee
A few months in the Bahamas or Mexico is one thing. For that matter weekends or weeks with the kids in a small boat are great, but that is not the issue here.
Now that I've had two glasses of wine, I think I can respond to your terrible ideas.

Actually, your points and scenarios are well-described and supported. I might add that by age 60, the kids are most likely through college and on their own. This is good in the fiscal responsibility to kids issue, but not so good in the "want to cruise with the kids" desire.

The other possible problem is that even at age 60, there might be health insurance issues to cover the gap until Medicare. More than a few of us may have pre-existing conditions by age 60, and who knows what monthly costs might be. I've noticed that a lot of younger cruisers seem to have "special deals" set up (they worked for BluCross or something) that offers them special coverage benefits even if they retire early.

At the Seattle boat show last year, I listened to a seminar by a younger cruising couple. As they noted, they had a choice between cruising or having health insurance, and they opted to cruise without health insurance. Since then, I've found better resources for coverage options (compared to nil).

You described two scenarios well. I'd like to toss out one more. The seasonal/commuter cruiser.

Some of us have careers that could be shifted to 10 month positions, with full benefits during the two months off. If someone lived in the right area, this could result in two months of active coastal cruising in the summers, with or without kids, for as many years as desired. One's annual salary would take a hit, but the cruising would be coastal and shorter term so the boat costs would be less as well. Surprise expenses (engine failure!) could be gradually absorbed by the annual salary.

I've known teachers who've managed to pull this off by owning less expensive homes (1000 sq. feet) and less expensive boats. Sometimes they have to work on the boat for some of their two months, and other times they choose not to cruise so much in the summers. Others might sail down to Mexico, leave the boat, and then return the following year in a "commuting" scenario.

Some might not consider this "cruising," but it would lead to a lot of experience without losing one's career and associated benefits. It could also be done with kids. I've been considering it, since it might be possible to afford a "do it all" boat, which would be light and small enough for local day sailing (and beer can racing and short cruises) in the fall and spring, but strong and large enough for a coastal hop and 1-2 months of summer cruising as well. A local boat that comes to mind is a Pearson 10M.

Lots of options that are fun to consider.

Jim H

Last edited by Jim H; 12-01-2006 at 10:03 PM.
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  #34  
Old 12-01-2006
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Going

Actually, paying off your boat when your young is a good idea. Wish I had done that.

I am considering the cost of going. I am conservative but have a good job with a decent retirement. My investments are OK. Only payment I have is a house payment but I will probably sell the house and buy a much smaller place outright in a few years. I sold my last boat and will probably buy my blue water cruising boat this year even though I will only coastal cruise until I retire. I think a prudent person should spend a few years really getting to know his boat if he is going to trust his life and families life in it. I realize that others may not agree but as I said I am conservative. With one 3 year exception I have spent my whole life by the sea and working on it or diving under it and lets just say I have respect for her moods. The real issue for me is just letting go. It is probably one of the hardest decisions for all of us. All I can say is that I have met a number of long distance cruisers and they all say the same thing. Even if you have to go small just go. If you don't and you truly are a long distance sailor you will regret it. Certainly you have to make sure you do not become a burden on others but you can't get too hung up on numbers (and I am guilty of that also).

Considering cruisers, ethnocentric personalities are rare.
Cherry picking stats with no context is garbage. Personally I hope I continue to never meet such people while traveling on the water. I am knew to this site and I really hope that Waverider's method of addressing an important choice all cruisers must make at some point is not the norm.
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  #35  
Old 12-01-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverider
Let's hope I don't meet a conservative dreamer on the waves either, that last thing I need to listen to is a head in the sand whiner when I'm having fun on our boat.
Wave, you have me laughing out loud. I take it that you don't work in public relations...

First off, if you are so pleased with your country, finances and cruising plans, why are you even posting here? Are we heathens that need to be saved?

Secondly, the "attitude" you're showing is pretty extreme. I mean, on the docks, I think we'd quietly run away from you.

So look, maybe you should give us a break here. Most of us know how to use the IGNORE LIST feature on this bulletin board. Basically, in the User Control Panel, we can add a user to our personal ignore lists, and then it's pretty much like they don't exist. You can then say anything you want, and it will be like a tree falling in a forest.

So turn it around-- we're not as terrible as your attitude suggests.

Jim H
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  #36  
Old 12-02-2006
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I'll never know because you just made the ignore list.
What an A**.
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  #37  
Old 12-02-2006
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"I'm a Canadian, read hockey player, so I'm aggressive. I play tomorrow, and I'm going to find the first french guy on the ice and drop the gloves and beat the hell out of him. Hey, he's french, so he needs a beating and I like french fries, and hate freedom fries. Actually, poutine is better."

Canada now uses retired geriatric players?? Must be a sight!!

You must be one of those “aggressive” idiots that loves the bravery of being out of range.

Come on down to St. Thomas, I’m waiting for you…. Will make you swallow that chilled wine and it won’t be thru the mouth…. Gozzard 37, huh???? Easy to spot!
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  #38  
Old 12-02-2006
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Huh?

I just dropped in on this thread...so is this the new "Fight club"??
What happened to the sense of community here?
(looking for "chill pills" so I can pass 'em out)
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  #39  
Old 12-02-2006
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  #40  
Old 12-02-2006
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Source: http://www.boatus.com/jackhornor/sail/Gozzard36.htm

"... it’s fair to say that if performance is your primary criteria in a sailboat you should not be looking at a boat like the Gozzard 36. However, if style, accommodations and quality construction rank high on your priority list, and you’re prepared to pay for them, this could be the boat for you. "

Sounds like a Gozzard is all show and no go? I guess it's true then, pets resemble their owners.
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