Trans-Ocean vs Coastal.. discussion - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 86 Old 04-14-2016 Thread Starter
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Trans-Ocean vs Coastal.. discussion

Folks.. the "IP yachts is dead" thread has drifted into the title territory.. some good discussion and exchanges so I'm moving those posts into this thread... carry on. Cheers Ron (Faster)


Dave you seemed OK to go on a 1500+m daysail with me and my spade rudder a few years back
Was it because just half of it was out of helicopter range?

This has gotten to be a mine bigger than yours pissing contest. Reality is IP makes(made) fine boats..Hope they continue to do so. Everyone has their list as to what they want/refuse to have on their boat. Although a vanishing small percentage of boats blue water cruise ( including IPs ) they ticked a lot of the right boxes for some people. That number has gotten smaller. This thread remains speculative as to their ability to remain afloat. (Pun intended). Shame is the US cruising sailboat market continues to shrink. H buys M. Different H buys I. PSC makes a rare new hull. Only good news is new offerings from H and S. Although suspect both their bottom lines is floated on motorboats and will be for the indefinite future.
Perhaps I tune in same time same channel if something new breaks. Otherwise bye bye.

s/v Hippocampus
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Last edited by Faster; 04-15-2016 at 08:00 PM.
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post #2 of 86 Old 04-15-2016
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Re: Island Packet Closing Doors?

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Even in the trades, it is a constant 20kts wind or better. 28 days of constant sailing in that is hard on a boat and stuff breaks and chafes and leaks on the best found boats. It's much more stress than the average boat goes through with a once-a-week, 6 hour daysail in 10kt winds.

Panama to Grenada is largely a coastal sail, never far from shore. It is not a trans-oceanic passage by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm beginning to think you don't have much experience in some of what you talk about. Yes, that stretch is never far from shore, although you would probably be killed if you approached much of that shore, but it is straight into 25-30kt winds, straight into a contrary 2kt current, and straight into 2-4M steep waves with 5-7sec intervals. For 1,000nm.

There is a very good reason that hundreds of boats each year do the downwind, down current, round long period waves through the South Pacific, while virtually nobody goes east from Panama.

I'll bet more gear is broken getting to Panama than getting to Fiji. At least that was the case when I followed the world ARC in 2011. I was in Panama when they arrived from St. Lucie and almost every single boat was frantically looking for riggers, welders, sail makers, etc. Conversely, almost all the blogs from the Panama to Marquasies described pretty easy sailing with few minor gear issues.

It has nothing at all to do with how close the shore is. Rounding Cape Horn is a couple of day sails a few miles off shore, after all...

Mark

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post #3 of 86 Old 04-15-2016
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It's really the luck of the draw and the skippers skills set. Sailing to Panama or sailing to the South Pacific can be easy or hard. The advantage of sailing down the Colombian coast is that you can often get reasonable weather predictions and of course the sailing is a few days not a few weeks. The seas are different and the Caribbean in this area is known for shorter wave patterns than the Pacific. Those that think sailing the Pacific is steady 20 knot winds probably have not sailed it. Yes there are days you will get those conditions but certainly not for the whole crossing, in fact it's quite variable. By the way the world ARC went thru the San Blas while we were there and it doesn't surprise me they were getting lots fixed when you saw them in Panama, some of them were really lacking experience and we're bouncing off reefs.
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post #4 of 86 Old 04-15-2016
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Re: Island Packet Closing Doors?

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Dave you seemed OK to go on a 1500+m daysail with me and my spade rudder a few years back
Was it because just half of it was out of helicopter range?
Sure - I sail boats with spade rudders and partial skeg rudders over oceans all the time.

All the hype about full keels v. fin keels is ill informed. People simply don't understand the issues. Everyone thinks he or she is an engineer after reading a few magazine articles and a book. If you have enough faith in professionals to drive across a bridge you should believe us when we tell you that a fin keel is a good thing.

I'm not poking at you, outbound, at all. I see the research and study you have put in, as have others like Jeff_H, and most importantly the occasional "I don't know" when, well, you don't. That's well educated, open-minded behavior.

EVERY boat, like every commercial ship and warship is a series of compromises. Some compromises are good choices and some are not.

On the newer three digit IPs the Full Foil Keel(R) provides very shallow draft boats. For many cruisers, especially those on the US East Coast, that is a very attractive and desirable characteristic. The trade-off is that pointing under sail is not as good as it could otherwise be (and is on the older two-digit boats). Most cruisers can't or won't tune the rigs on their cutters (like IPs) to point well either.

On the other hand, passagemaking is a small portion of the time we spend aboard for most cruisers. IP is an extremely comfortable boat. I like sailing fast but at some point there is some merit to saying that you are okay with taking 10 or 15 or 20 percent longer to get somewhere as long as you don't spend all that extra time getting pounded by weather. It all becomes very stochastic.
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sail fast and eat well, dave S/V Auspicious

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post #5 of 86 Old 04-15-2016
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I reread that earlier post sailing from Panama to Grenada. I don't think anyone sails this. It's very common to go from Panama to Cartegena but after that you wait for no wind or very little wind and motor to maybe Santa Marta. Some real keeners with a great upwind boat and little common sense and perfect SSE windsmight sail from there across the Caribbean and if lucky might be able to tack back after several days and make Grenada but as was pointed out you are fighting a strong adverse current. We will go around clockwise and even then it's a pain in some areas.
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post #6 of 86 Old 04-15-2016
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Re: Island Packet Closing Doors?

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I reread that earlier post sailing from Panama to Grenada. I don't think anyone sails this. It's very common to go from Panama to Cartegena but after that you wait for no wind or very little wind and motor to maybe Santa Marta. Some real keeners with a great upwind boat and little common sense and perfect SSE windsmight sail from there across the Caribbean and if lucky might be able to tack back after several days and make Grenada but as was pointed out you are fighting a strong adverse current. We will go around clockwise and even then it's a pain in some areas.
I'm still laughing at that Panama to Grenada quote... but C'est la vie.
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post #7 of 86 Old 04-15-2016
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Re: Island Packet Closing Doors?

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I reread that earlier post sailing from Panama to Grenada. I don't think anyone sails this. It's very common to go from Panama to Cartegena but after that you wait for no wind or very little wind and motor to maybe Santa Marta. Some real keeners with a great upwind boat and little common sense and perfect SSE windsmight sail from there across the Caribbean and if lucky might be able to tack back after several days and make Grenada but as was pointed out you are fighting a strong adverse current. We will go around clockwise and even then it's a pain in some areas.
It's an identical situation as to what we have here in Southern CA when going up the coast. Most motorsail it, harbor hopping. It's not difficult to do in and of itself, although it is a slog. It can be sailed, however, by sailing west and then cutting up NE.

As was pointed out before, the rumbline is rarely the best way to get there.
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post #8 of 86 Old 04-15-2016
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Yes I am very aware of the Baja bash but it's not the same as going from Panama to Grenada. On the Baja Bash you have places you can tuck in and get a rest and the winds in that area are generally much lighter than off Colombia. I've been down that coast 4 times so I have a reasonable sense about the area. The two trips are similar in a way until you get to the last place to anchor in Colombia and then it's open water to Aruba and east to Grenada. The only coast to go up is Venezuela and these days no one with any common sense would choose to do that.There is the odd boat that has done the trip but you would want really large fuel tanks,as little wind as possible,,more time than you know what to do with and no fillings in your teeth.
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Re: Island Packet Closing Doors?

Would it not be possible to point from Panama towards, say, Jamaica, then down towards Grenada?
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post #10 of 86 Old 04-15-2016
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Yes you could head towards Jamaica but trying to make Grenada from there you'd need to get real lucky as your right in the teeth of wind and current most days, you would want more easting and that's always the challenge. You pretty much have to make your way up to the BVI to have a decent sail to Grenada. I am new to this area so there are others who know it much better than I do and they might chime in. I'm a west coast boy so I actually know more about your neck of the woods than the Caribbean. We will have only been here a year so still lots to learn.
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