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Boat insurance, who?

9K views 52 replies 28 participants last post by  chuck53 
#1 ·
I'm looking to buy a 1988 30foot C&C sailboat to live aboard in DC. Who or what company do you insure through? I'm looking to sail the Chesapeake Bay. I have taken asa 101, 103/104 and been sailing for 2 years.
 
#2 ·
Don't take anecdotal examples, from the internet, as good input. All insurance companies are forced to run separately, by state, so my experience with one could be entirely different than yours.

The best way to place coverage is to find a local agent, who represents several different insurance companies and knows the marine markets, to advise you. Beyond coverage and price, they can help you understand how good each is when you make a claim and how flexible they are, for example, if you need to haul or launch outside a defined window or allow someone else to move your boat, etc. Ask them about consequential damage coverage too.

The worst way to buy insurance, IMO, is to call the insurance company directly.
 
#4 ·
FWIW, I've been a Boat US customer for more than 20 years of boat ownership. Though, I've only had one claim in all that time, when I needed them, they were a pleasure to do business with: fast, communicative and efficient. They have a diminishing deductable plan.
Since I had never filed a claim, My deductable had gone from $500 to zero deductable, when I did. Which = no out of pocket costs.
I'm covered from Nova Scotia to Jacksonville Fla. Wtih no time restriction on being south of Norfolk Va.

Their unlimited towing ins. policy is probably the best purchase, I've ever made. I needed a tow once, that would have cost me over $800. The Bill was Zero. My only cost was a tip to the tow operator.

My marina was devasted by Hurricane Sandy, while I survived without damage, a great many boats did not. Boat U.S had a trailer,an office, and staff on-site within days to manage the claims, while handing out coffee and buns. While, I'm sure other adjusters were around, I didn't see anyone else with that level of service on-site.

I have no affilation with them other than membership and my 2 policies. I only speak from my own experience. I also, have not compared their price to other companies in many years, so I can't attest to where they fit in the pricing spectrum.
 
#5 ·
Association sponsored programs, like BoatUS, can be good deals. Essentially, BoatUS is an agent, who places the insurance with a real third party insurance company. The insurance company will often create a unique set of coverages for a client like BoatUS, who has access to hundreds of thousands of potential clients and, undoubtedly, is paid a commission.

In some cases, the insured party gets a great deal on additional coverages (ie vanishing deductible) that others may not have access to. In other cases, you get more coverage, but you pay more for it. Then it becomes a question of whether the coverage is meaningful or appropriate for you.

Personally, I've found BoatUS coverage to be more expensive and they weren't willing to cover what I believe is the actual hull value of my boat. Yes, that is a negotiable point with many companies and a classic method that some companies use to say they will "save you 15% in 15 minutes". They just reduce the hull value and lower their exposure.
 
#6 ·
I'll check out both agents and individuals. What would be an example of individual companies? I bank with USAA (military) but they passed me to another company as they don't do boat insurance.

Also, someone said it might go on a home policy. Anyone heard of that?
 
#8 ·
What would be an example of individual companies?
You see them advertise on TV all the time. Again, varies by State.

Also, someone said it might go on a home policy. Anyone heard of that?
Some do, but usually have an upper limit on the size and value boat they will add, before requiring it be a dedicated marine policy. Be very careful of the add-on and make sure you are still getting very important and specific marine environmental coverage, hurricane haul out, etc. The homeowner add-on may just cover hull loss in more narrowly defined circumstances.

There is another concept you should understand, called the Broker of Record. No two brokers (agents) can call to get a quote for you from the same company. If you call the company directly, the broker/agent, won't be able to get a quote for you as well and will not be able to compare features for you. Essentially, the insurance company won't compete against itself. It's best to let the agent do all the work for you. It's what they get paid to do.
 
#9 ·
Do call your local agent, and, do call companies directly. Lately, for me, the company with the little Auzzie lizard is cheapest. For years before that, my agent was killing it.

I have been drifting away from the local agent because I started doing better on my own AND I stopped getting the personalized service I enjoyed. I don't mind paying the same or a tiny bit more for good service from a local business.
 
#10 ·
We had great success with Bill Hodgens of Yachtinsure -- when we got our first and only boat a brand new Jeanneau DS40 and no previous experience except a couple of charters and the asa courses you have we could not find insurance.
Bill insured us and kept changing the policy to meet our needs not the insurance company or his. He is a great guy who will work with you

as for local guys - I disagree they may not have the experience or reach to really find the best marine policy for you -- this is not house or car insurance. - it is different with different rules

We now have IMIS and they are great - each year we challenge them with our needs and they meet them each time - this year is a bit more of a challenge for them as we are headed into the Black Sea but they worked it out.
 
#11 ·
Clearly, you have to find an agent that is familiar with the marine industry. Anywhere I've ever been, near the water, there has been more than one to pick from. With 15,000 boats on Narragansett Bay, it could be an agent's entire business.

I also noted the story about an agent that started to drift away. That's too bad, but it happens in many recurring business industries. They can find themselves too focused on finding new clients, over keeping the one's they have. The direct carrier can do the same. I would still find another agent that represents multiple insurance companies. When you buy direct, there is no one that is going to explain what that one single word on page 63 does to change their liability to you. There is also no one to advocate or advise you on how properly handle a claim with them.
 
#12 ·
My auto is through USAA as well, and like was mentioned above, they don't do boats.

They passed me to progressive, which ended up being cheaper and better coverage than boat us.

Boat US would only cover me in the Hudson river, and I had to stay North of the George Washington bridge. Progressive is up to 75 miles offshore.
 
#21 ·
My auto is through USAA as well, and like was mentioned above, they don't do boats.

They passed me to progressive, which ended up being cheaper and better coverage than boat us.

Boat US would only cover me in the Hudson river, and I had to stay North of the George Washington bridge. Progressive is up to 75 miles offshore.
Ditto. I've been with USAA for over 40 years. I have a power boat insured with them but when I bought my Corsair, they passed me off to Progressive. Seems they (USAA) farmed out their marine coverage (not sure when..I've had my power boat coverage with USAA since 1999). I also found them to be less expensive than Boat US so I went with them.
 
#13 ·
OK, so I have 'heard' horrible things about Progressive paying out. To be clear, I have never had progressive or tried to get a claim through them.

This is a true story; When I was still with my agent and Traveler's had just stopped coverage in CT so she found me some company I never heard of at a good price. I broke my prop coming into a travel lift as the very last haul out on the eve of Hurricane Sandy. It was windy as heck, there was already debris in the river and starting to rain. I thought I hit something. I spoke with three yards (well known in the Mystic/Stonington area) about replacing the prop. All three asked me up front if I had Progressive because if I did, they would not deal directly with them.

Footnote: I never did get paid for the prop as the surveyor they sent said that there was a previous crack and corrosion had set in, probably just as well it happened as I was pulling into the travel lift, it was going to happen sooner or later. The insurance company also denied me a "hurricane haul out" payment as they claimed it was late in the season and I would have hauled out sooner or later anyway. After a battle I settled for half what they owed me for the haul out.
 
#16 ·
.....The insurance company also denied me a "hurricane haul out" payment as they claimed it was late in the season and I would have hauled out sooner or later anyway.......
I've made several successful hurricane haulout claims over the years, but while I'm a big advocate of having the coverage, the language is sticky. The insurance company gets a bit of lattitude to decide if it was necessary. If there is truly the threat of a storm, they all prefer you haul out, so that's straight forward. It's when the storm is 5 days out, you know you'll not be available to deal with it or the haul list will get too long in a couple more days, so you haul early. Then the storm turns and isn't a threat. Insurance won't pay.

The opposite example of your story is when people are truly prepared to haul out for the season and then a storm comes and they want the insurance company to pay for it. I totally understand why they won't. The boat owner had no financial expense. Precisely the circumstance with Hurricane Sandy up here. I was already scheduled, so I made no claim. Others were pressing the marina pretty hard to bill as a stand alone hurricane haul, more than just the included winter storage fee. The marina would not play along with the fraud.

In fact, in our yard, if you do haul for a hurricane, you are required to go back in the water, even if you then want to stay out early. They can't get the boats positioned properly for the winter, in random order.
 
#14 ·
I used Allstate, It was clear they were led through the process by their underwriter so I don't know about the "experienced" part but they got through it.
For me it was to my advantage to go with the same guy that had everything else, there's power in numbers. They DID do some weird stuff like making me hire a surveyor for some pretty petty items found on my purchase survey but at the end I got a very favorable stated value at a super cost. For comparison I priced a bit and everyone was higher and wanted me to switch ALL my business to them, a Boat only insurer wouldn't ask that of me and I didn't talk to any of those guys.
 
#17 ·
Call Al Golden at IMIS. They're pros who have been doing this over 30 years, and they will gladly tell you if you are missing anything, such as wreck removal and environmental coverages. Sometimes they can't compete on coverage from a cheaper source, and if that's the case they'll tell you that as well. But you WILL be dealing with highly respected professionals. If there are any weasel words in an insurance contract, they also know about that, so you don't need to get a rude surprise when you actually see your policy.
 
#18 ·
My sailboat is covered by an agreed value policy from amarine underwriter through a local insurance agency. A number of years ago, I shopped around and found BoatUS to be $200/yr cheaper, but then I asked the $25000 question: Does the policy provide for equipment--particularly electronics--replacement or does it adjust for depreciation? Long story short: I have stayed with a proper yacht policy through the local agency and it has paid off. The restoration after a lightning strike was handled professionally and thoroughly to my satisfaction.

On the other hand, my power boat, which doesn't have nearly as much electronics, is insured via one of the companies best known for car insurance.

Whatever policy you are considering, please read the fine print.
 
#30 ·
My sailboat is covered by an agreed value policy from amarine underwriter through a local insurance agency. A number of years ago, I shopped around and found BoatUS to be $200/yr cheaper, but then I asked the $25000 question: Does the policy provide for equipment--particularly electronics--replacement or does it adjust for depreciation? Long story short: I have stayed with a proper yacht policy through the local agency and it has paid off. The restoration after a lightning strike was handled professionally and thoroughly to my satisfaction.

On the other hand, my power boat, which doesn't have nearly as much electronics, is insured via one of the companies best known for car insurance.

Whatever policy you are considering, please read the fine print.
So I happen to be in the midst of making a claim on my Boat US policy, and after reading this post I asked about my coverage for electronics. I was told that electronics on my policy are not subject to depreciation, but are a replacement item. Perhaps they have changed their policies on this? As it so happens, my electronics are fine, so I won't actually be testing this in my case.
 
#19 ·
If you can't get a policy under your home owner's insurance [and we have done that successfully in the past with other vessels] then be sure Al Golden at IMIS is one of those you contact. [Al is an ex-cruiser and marine insurance expert with decades of experience.]

You will get the absolute straight scoop from IMIS, and they will refer you elsewhere or let you know if they cannot be competitive. [No referral incentive here; just a very happy customer...]

Here is a brief, focused page on our blog about our strategy regarding marine insurance in case that is of interest. I have had that content vetted by a couple of marine insurance brokers [including IMIS] to confirm I was on track...

Best wishes with your search.

Cheers!

Bill
 
#24 ·
i'm on the page of using an agent that specializes in marine insurance for cruising sized boats. It's helpful to be able to talk with someone who knows you, your boat, where you cruise, your experience, and is able to advocate with carriers to get good rates and the right coverage for your particular circumstance. I've found if we were making a trip beyond our coverage geography, I could get a rider with a quick call to a real person who has known me for many years. Although I haven't found myself in a salvage situation, I'd rather be dealing with an agent that knows me and can advocate, rather than an amorphous large company while waiting on an 800 number queue.

I maybe the only person left in the internet era who highly values being able to talk with a real person, and still wants a relationship based business deal. Part of getting old, maybe, but I'm not changing now...too late.

YMMV.
 
#26 ·
fallard-
Some years ago I had a discussion with Progressive regarding insurance for a classic car. After the rep and I had been chatting for a while he said, well, he should really tell me that even though it was an "agreed value" policy? The fine print in their contracts would actually say "Agreed value or market value, whichever is the less."
So some "agreed value" policies from some insurers who are generally thought of as nice guys? Is in fact weasel words and worthless.

That's the kind of "heads up!" that the folks at IMIS are good at finding, and alerting, prospective buyers to.
 
#27 ·
Rob-
While there is some merit in leaving your boat on your oversized mooring rather than hauling, consider this.
In theory, every boat hauled and secured on jackstands on the hard, for that hurricane, is now in a protected area, surrounded by secured vessels. (As if none ever blow over, I now.) But if you are on a mooring, all kinds of breakaways and other debris may still come down on your mooring and sink your boat. And a boat that sinks in the water is often a total loss (and endangers other vessels) while a boat that is smacked on the hard, is just a bent boat.
So your insurer MAY be totally insane, but their actions are usually the result of their actuarial experience. Which is based on "everyone", not just you and your boat. Their desire to see your boat hauled, even if that greatly inconveniences you, may simply be the result of how they feel the boats, all the boats, have to be protected.
Of course you can always submit a proposal at Lloyd's for a custom policy, but you might not like the price. One way or the other, they are, after all, in it for the profit.
 
#29 ·
Funny IMIS never called me back. I contacted them a while ago, never heard back from them. I currently have Progressive and am not happy with them. I had a car claim that I think they were very bad on. Granted it was an older car 2000 BMW 530i but was very low millage and in mint conditino and they were showing me comps with 160,000 miles or were in poor condition. Wish I had sold the car as I did not go through a week without someone asked to buy it at about four times what they paid me. I am using them because they don't require a survey, at least for liability and that makes it worth it. I am not really worried about my boat, but need the insurance for the marina and in case I drift into someone. I am looking, but have not fond anyone. Once some work is done on the boat, I may go elsewhere. I did have excellent service from Erie insurance from when my mechanic backed in my car with his truck in the lot. They offered all BMW OE (very rare) parts and called to make sure I was satisfied after the work was done. So that is who I am likely switching to.

So factoring in a survey should be in the budget. So it may well make sense to get a pre-purchase survey and have him do the insurance survey at the same time.
 
#37 ·
Funny IMIS never called me back. I contacted them a while ago, never heard back from them.

So factoring in a survey should be in the budget. So it may well make sense to get a pre-purchase survey and have him do the insurance survey at the same time.
IMIS never called back! that is very strange. We have had nothing but excellent service from them. When we went to Montenegro the gov't there required 1m euro liability and we carried 500k - an email to IMIS and they had it for us the next day.

When we came to the Black Sea we had to get a rider for the far eastern part and we told IMIS when we would be there and they had the rider done in less than 12 hours and back to us.

there service has simply been incredible and they have worked with us on our cruising plans and nothing we tell them seems to phase them from the 2 handed atlantic crossing to Colombia to the Black Sea - they work it out for us.

We deal with Rachel Sloan at IMIS.

as for a survey on a new boat. WOW that seems like a must do period no discussion no second thoughts on it
 
#31 ·
Folks, I just can't say this often enough. Comparing experiences, with the exact same carrier (Progressive, etc), from one state to the next, can be very different. They each form state specific subsidiaries to comply with individual state insurance laws. That can also change their behavior state by state.

A good agent can and will be able to point out all the scenarios above. They should know that one carrier may make it easier to insure, without a survey, but could be much harder to make a claim or gets more aggressive on value.

No doubt, there are also deficient agents out there, so getting a good one, with good references, who has ample experience in marine insurance is very important. The lowest premium is not the best coverage. The easiest policy is not the best coverage. The best coverage is the one that will pay you, if you lose the bet you are concerned about.
 
#32 ·
Just resigned with Catlin now called XL. Several things should be considered.
Beyond cost and fine print-
Geographic restrictions.
Time restrictions.
Crew requirements.
Availability of riders.
Is it US or offshore based. If offshore maybe quite problematic to settle a claim and there's absence of involvement of US gov't agencies to advocate for you. For instance have heard claims against Llyods can be tied up for years.
Also underwriters for new or more extensive trips becomes very much easier if you have a history with that carrier. Therefore you should consider boats you may own in the future and trips you may take against whether that carrier will underwrite that activity. Although the Bahamas/Canada is often covered many carriers will not cover rest of carribean nor trans Atlantic/Pacific nor even a Panama Canal Mexico west coast trip. Simple snow birding may not be covered unless entirely in US waters.
With US carriers many require boat returns to US periodically. Sometimes for a certain interval. Sometimes requires boat be in US waters for >1/2yr. Beyond hurricane restrictions this means going on the hard in Trinidad or Grenada for the summer is not allowed.
 
#33 ·
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