Vessel registration - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-28-2007
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimthom is on a distinguished road
Vessel registration

I'm an American living in Australia (dual citizenship) and building a DIY yacht here in Melbourne. I can register this yacht as an Amercan vessel. My other option is to register it as an Australian vessel. My ultimate goal is to bluewater cruise and decide whether to turn right or left when I sail out of Port Phillip Bay. I will definately be returning to Australia at some point, and also will sail to S.F where my family lives. I will cruise as long as possible (I'm 65). Any pros or cons about vessel registration? In Cruising Helmsman magazine they cited an Australian citizen who bought a boat in Europe but couldn't cruise Australian waters without paying inport duties on his boat. Vessel registration in Australia is about $AUD800, American registration is about $AUD200. Any thoughts/view points appreciated.

Cheers, Jim

Last edited by jimthom; 02-28-2007 at 04:27 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 02-28-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
If your long-term goal is to stay in Austrailian waters, I would register the boat there, rather than the US. It will simplify your paperwork in the long run.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 02-28-2007
c2cSailor's Avatar
c2csailor
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Texas City, TX
Posts: 45
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
c2cSailor is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to c2cSailor Send a message via Skype™ to c2cSailor
Registration

While I'm not versed on import duties on foreign vessels, I don't understand why this person was charged if the vessel was not being brought into the country for resale. My opinion is to register your vessel in the country where you file taxes and recieve your mail, bills, ect. In the US, a vessel must be registered in the state of principal use. In your case being a liveaboard underway, you could get away with documenting the vessel though the USCG, but that implies a residence somewhere in the states. In addition, some states here in the US require you register your vessel in their state regardless of USCG documentation. We have some pretty strange laws here. Good luck.
__________________
Tim Haibach
Boatless
Texas City, TX

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 02-28-2007
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
There's the political aspect as well: An Australian flagged boat (because I assume an Australian-built and registered boat would be obliged to fly that country's ensign) carries a different (not a better or worse) political weight than an American-flagged boat.

If you possess a U.S. certificate of seamanship, such as the Coast Guard "six-pack", I have no idea if this is seen as transferable or equivalent on an Australian-flagged vessel. You might find that not only is it not respected, but as an American, it is impossible for you to get Australian qualifications, with obvious insurance and charter implications.

You may also fall under different rules of salvage and insurance, and while it is unlikely you'll ever be subject to rescue from both countries, it is possible that the U.S. might rescue you (say you broke a leg on board) but *not* take your boat under tow, because it's not a U.S. boat.

Lots of questions here. I have my own somewhat similar issues, because while my boat is registered as Canadian and I co-own it with my wife, I carry dual Canadian and British citizenship. There is no recreational sailing equivalent to the British "Yachtmaster" course issued by the RYA or the U.S.C.G. 20-tonner/six-passenger or 100-tonner certificates. Canadian qualifications are strictly merchant shipping and military-oriented. So my only option is to get the British Yachtmaster if I ever want to do deliveries and demonstrate both competence and insurability. The U.S. will not certify non-citizens, otherwise I'd take their 20-tonner courses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 02-28-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 559
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
cockeyedbob is on a distinguished road
Jimthom,
Just out of curiosity, what are you building?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 02-28-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Galveston, Texas
Posts: 148
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
TXS-ALAMO is on a distinguished road
I'm not sure I understand your dual-citizenship problem. A U.S. citizen looses his citizenship when he becomes a citizen of another country. A non U.S. citizen who becomes a naturalized U.S. citizen upon his swearing-in oath must relinquish his citizenship in any other country. It would seem that dual-citizenship is an oxymoron. If you get away with the duality, it seems that you have CANDIDE'S world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 02-28-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 825
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
chris_gee is on a distinguished road
There are two points. You can register in either country. If you register in the US, on returning to Australia other than on a short visit, you might be liable for duty and tax assessed by a valuer, however that would seem unfair, and so possibly unlikely as you paid GST on the materials. You would have to check this and also the possiblity of exporting it first and reclaiming gst, then paying duty in the US etc.
If you register in OZ you require a cruising permit in the US as it is the boat that is foreign registered, not you. You would not then have to pay duty and tax in OZ on return because it is not a foreign purchased boat.
It sounds simpler if you are returning to Australia to register there. Wherever you register there will be complications in the other country. You may need specialist advice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 02-28-2007
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 72
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Mkfcdl is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXS-ALAMO
I'm not sure I understand your dual-citizenship problem. A U.S. citizen looses his citizenship when he becomes a citizen of another country. A non U.S. citizen who becomes a naturalized U.S. citizen upon his swearing-in oath must relinquish his citizenship in any other country. It would seem that dual-citizenship is an oxymoron. If you get away with the duality, it seems that you have CANDIDE'S world.
Absolutely not true. My daughter was born in Houston to a U.S. father (me) and my Canadian wife. She is a dual citizen of Canada and the U.S. and the U.S. recognizes that she has both citizenships--and she has two passports as well. Otherwise, you're correct that a U.S. citizen is required by the U.S. to give up U.S. citizenship if he/she becomes a citizen of another country (not a resident but a citizen). However, even if you give up your U.S. citizenship, you are still required to pay taxes on worldwide income to the U.S. government. In other words, if you become a citizen of another country, you give up your rights but not your obligations to the U.S.

Thanks, Uncle Sam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 02-28-2007
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimthom is on a distinguished road
Thanks for broadening my horizons with some useful comments. Regarding dual citizenship; the law was changed several years ago to allow American citizens to take-up Australian citizenship. Previously, they
were required to relinquish their American citizenship. I don't know if this applies to other countries as well as Australia.

The boat I'm building is a 35' steel pilothouse cutter (Roberts design).

The owner refered to in the Cruising Helmsman article was charged because as an Australian he could not be issued with a cruising permit. Hence he was required to pay customs duty even though there was no intention of staying in Australia or importing his vessel. He offered to pay a bond but was told that it was hard to police and liable to abuse.

Cheers, Jim

Last edited by jimthom; 03-01-2007 at 12:10 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 03-01-2007
Idiens's Avatar
Larus Marinus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,756
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Idiens is on a distinguished road
Just my take on this. I think a yacht owner has to register his yacht in his country of residence. Residence is defined by "centre of economic and social interest". So normally, someone living in Australia (owns or rents property there) and earning income in Australia (receives money for whatever reason or source there) clearly has both social and economic interest there - ergo must register his yacht in Australia. There is usually a 185 day rule, to complicate things but the owner's nationality does not actually play a role.
It gets complicated when the owner's social or economic interests differ from the normal situation. So an American might have a yacht built in Australia and export it to whereever his residence is. I think nominally, it can be US flagged and taxes paid immediately, if his residence is formally in the USA, but I see on this site that the USA has other rules for non-US citizens.
I suppose, a separate legal entity, like a company, can be formed in country X and formally be the owner of a yacht and take on country X's flag and taxes, no matter where the boat is built or who owns the company. Ships are often flagged this way.
The boat I currently have was first registered in the Channel Islands by a company formed specifically to own it. The company and the boat changed hands twice before the boat was imported into the EU and duties paid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Learning to Share PracticalSailor Practical Sailor 16 03-05-2014 02:36 PM
Tow or Salvage? Kathy Barron Seamanship Articles 0 09-06-2004 09:00 PM
Tow or Salvage? Kathy Barron Cruising Articles 0 09-06-2004 09:00 PM
Waves and Boat Stability Michael Carr Seamanship Articles 0 03-25-2004 08:00 PM
Fishing Vessel? pirateofcapeann Seamanship & Navigation 5 12-12-2002 08:11 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:33 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.