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  #21  
Old 03-16-2007
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T34C-
Very interesting bulletin. Sixteen lost rudders in that "size" boat from one maker alone. Considering that in all the years, I only know one person who actually lost a rudder at sea (stainless failure in the days when it was little known)....one has to wonder if Hunter has simply under-designed the rudders. And, despite their express warrantee, if that's an inherent design defect and safety issue they may be held liable for under statute. Some liabilities you just can't waive, no matter how hard you try.

This is the kind of stuff that makes lawyers rich and customers unhappy. A more reputable maker might say "Well, 1/2% of all boats in this size range have rudder failures, but we've had 20% failures. Ooops, we made a mistake." Looks like they're inviting their owners to do the math themselves. Saying that rudders are exposed and they break and all, that's nice...but did you also notice they mentioned 16 composite rudder stock failures--and none for traditional steel stocks?

Manufacturers just don't get it, they complain about the courts and regulations...and then they leave customers with no other alternatives, and wonder why they get hit with more regulations every year.

One could argue that this failure is a good thing, and call it a "breakaway rudder stock" which fails before the rudder tube or hull can be damaged. But then again...they only problem seems to be in their composite rudder stocks.

Why be picky, if the tail can fall off an Airbus, what's a rudder stock among friends. (sigh)

Now, if I were a real cynic, I would wonder if the design specs for those rudder stocks were calculated by the same guy who spec'd the keel on Thursday's Child. Which broke off when the boss was racing it, years ago. (Oopsie.)


Personally I think if more customers would just leave horse heads in the CEOs bed, the CEOs would behave better. (Referring to "The Godfather".)
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  #22  
Old 03-16-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra
That's not a cleat. It's a friggin' bollard!
Technically it's a mooring bitt.. but very nice... it'd be a bit overkill on a smaller boat though like mine..

Quote:
Originally Posted by T34C
This topic is now on 3 different threads, but I don't think there was any kind of recall.
While there wasn't technically a recall, having a significant number of rudder failures on all the same design of boat in such a short period of time should have been a warning. Ethically, Hunter should have posted a recall on the defective design of the composite rudder stock.

I think that Hunter should be held accountable... since, statistically, the number of problems with their composite rudder stocks is far higher than one would expect. This is one reason Hunter has been given such a hard time on a lot of sailing forums, by a lot of sailors.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 03-16-2007 at 08:59 PM.
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  #23  
Old 03-16-2007
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When is it time too..

I've never been blue water sailing, but would like to have that as a goal someday. From the little bit of information in the article, it sounded like he was running with the weather. From what I've read, this can give you a false sence of security vs other points of sail.
At what time should the skipper have said "were pushing the rigging and equipment to much" and heave to and wait out the weather? I know we can't answer that question. But how do you (the experienced blue water captains here) determine the limit of your boats? Did you do it by experiencing equipment failure or sail with a big safety factor that is not dictated by a time schedule to maintain?
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  #24  
Old 03-16-2007
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Tartan34C will become famous soon enough
It’s a judgment call and I think it’s something you get with experience. I have broken enough stuff that I now have a feel for what the limits are.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
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  #25  
Old 03-16-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne25
At what time should the skipper have said "were pushing the rigging and equipment to much" and heave to and wait out the weather? ?
Appearently, if you are in a Hunter, it should be a lot sooner.
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  #26  
Old 03-16-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster
Right on, Valiente! Though a steel boat does not suit us or our normal sailing venues and habits, some years ago I did a down coast trip to California on a Colvin Schooner in steel - not fast, but when the weather hit we had tremendous faith in the structural integrity of the vessel and fittings. One worry down.
If it were just me, I'd throw a couple of tanks in the Viking 33 and take off, or get an old J/Boat. But as it's my family, and I haven't got a million bucks to buy a Kanter build of a Paine design, or a Shearwater 45 or a J/160...I'll go around at five knots instead of nine.

Colvins are brutally overbuilt even by my standards. Ours will be well under 30,000 lbs. fully tanked and provisioned on 42 feet in steel. Those babies weigh that empty. I think you use a reef to ready the hull for a repaint.

EDIT: Sailingdog, you win the terminology prize. But it's a mooring bitt, with two "t"s. Hence "the bitts", two squarish timbers in the foredeck area for lashing off a cable, and akin to a samson post. I just call my bitts "the big buggers there..."

Last edited by Valiente; 03-16-2007 at 08:31 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-16-2007
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Damn spellcheck.. I actually have one mooring bitt that I'm installing on my boat for the anchor rode. The rest of the boat will have to make do with plain old cleats...but my boat probably masses about an eighth of what yours does... being a multihull and a good deal shorter.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #28  
Old 03-16-2007
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"Damn spellcheck.. I actually have one mooring bitt "
My spellcheck tells me a mooing butt is a cow that's gotten turned inside out and bass akwards.

I don't know...I had the foolish impression that crucial parts of a boat, like the rudder stock, should be strong enough to survive rollovers, falling off waves, little things like that which, apparently, that Hunter never had a chance to get tested by.
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  #29  
Old 03-16-2007
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I would hope that the rudderstock was strong enough to withstand a rollover or violent broach. It just seems very odd that so many boats with the composite rudderstock had problems, when the same boats with the stainless steel rudder stock did not.

Engineering problems with composites, especially in high torque/high load situations is pretty common according to one aeronautical engineer I know who designs composite drone aircraft. Back when carbon fiber was the new kid on the block for bicycle frames, they had some spectacular failures caused by small scratches to the frames...which are common to bicycles... but it wasn't understood how it would affect the integrity of the carbon fiber composite frames initially. They're much better now, twenty years later or so.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailhog
TB,
That's one cool looking deck.
Sailhog
Thoroughly agree. I'm getting a very positive vibe off of those Nauticats.
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