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  #161  
Old 06-30-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockeyedbob
So, yuck it up fellas, but excuse Bob for not joining in. There's something out there, and I don't believe it's god.
I agree, there's something out there. From my observation, that something is... us.
People who study the "placebo effect", don't know how it works, but they have seen people curing themselves with the simple suggestion that they are taking a new medication. The same happens with hypnosis. People reach resources within themselves to do the healing that they believe is being administered from the outside.
We have much to learn about ourselves, and every unexplained phenomenon ends and starts with our hopes and expectations. I think it's fine to tell children about God or Santa or Ronald Mc Donald, but there is a time when we have to let go of those fantasies and think about what is really consistent with our observation. Believe what you want but I believe what I understand when I'm not forced into a belief that makes me socially acceptable. Not too long ago it was considered a crime punishable by death to declare oneself an atheist. Ever wondered who was so threatened by that?
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  #162  
Old 07-01-2007
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mpraca-Oncologists will tell you that people who believe in God, have a higher survival rate than those that don't. I think this is a little different than taking a placebo. Something, as a cancer survivor, would not recommend you do.
Also, to think that Ronald McDonald created the world is a bit of a stretch. With millions of coincidences and irregularities in our world that scientists and "smart people" gloss over, I would also wonder who is really feeling threatened by God.
For example-a nucleus is made up of positively charged protons. We know that like charges repel. What keeps the nucleus from exploding? I don't remember covering that in science class. Do you honestly remember the teacher covering it? I do remember the story about primordial soup though. Talk about something not making sense.
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  #163  
Old 07-01-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42ndstreet
mpraca-Oncologists will tell you that people who believe in God, have a higher survival rate than those that don't.
42nd ...

The mate manages the local Med/Rad Oncolgy department ... she, a non-believer, very much agrees with you ...

Best wishes on your recovery.
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Last edited by cockeyedbob; 07-01-2007 at 04:16 PM.
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  #164  
Old 07-01-2007
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So, I'm just here trying be a nice guy, raise a family, squeeze in some sailing. I'm not trying to change the world, just make my little corner of it a better place to be. I don't believe in a 'supreme being' of any flavor. I do believe that there are many questions in the universe are yet unanswered, they may never be answered. Does that make me a bad person? Am I going to hell? Assuming there is one.
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  #165  
Old 07-01-2007
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Bsneek ...

Your guess is as good as mine.

I do what I can. If it ain't good enough ... well, guess it ain't good enough. Do ya s'pect el Supremo will grade on a curve?
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Last edited by cockeyedbob; 07-01-2007 at 04:35 PM.
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  #166  
Old 07-01-2007
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My point exactly!
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  #167  
Old 07-01-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42ndstreet
mpraca-Oncologists will tell you that people who believe in God, have a higher survival rate than those that don't. I think this is a little different than taking a placebo. Something, as a cancer survivor, would not recommend you do.
If believing in God helped anybody get over cancer, that's good for them. It only supports my point that people have resources that they interpret as being outside of themselves. Should I be scared that I don't believe? Is that a good reason to believe? I don't know that oncologists will all agree, but independently from that my concern is the truth, and I know that believeing in a fantasy is not the way I want to go through life. I cant believe in something that tells me such nonsense as can be dug out of the various competing versions of the word of God. I know they were written by people limited by their ignorance and their particular cultural beliefs. Why would God be concerned with eating pork in one account and not the other? Why would God talk about the world being flooded and leave out that there are far away places like different continents, and oceans those people never could have imagine? Wouldn't it be easy to actually have something worth revealing that was not possible for the people who wrote the "sacred" books to know otherewise? Why not transmit useful knowledge instead of banishing those who try to learn? If you believe is such a paternal being why do you bother putting gas in your car? It should be enough to pray. I hear even the popemobile needs fuel. I don't have all the answers and science doesn't either, but your proton question has been resolved a hundred years ago so I'll skip that argument. What I know is that God and fear are always too close together. Should I be too scared to open my eyes and see?
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  #168  
Old 07-01-2007
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Hmmmmm ...

There comes a time in most men's lives when the number of their remaining natural teeth closely approximates the number of their remaining years.

That time generally coincides with their beginning to seriously consider the future.
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  #169  
Old 07-01-2007
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This, to ME, is what makes sense. This, to ME, is what I can most relate to. I am an agnostic. The link below leads to a Q & A with Bertrand Russell on "What is an Agnostic?". For ME...good stuff.

What Is An Agnostic?
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  #170  
Old 07-01-2007
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"I can imagine other evidence of the same sort which might convince me, but so far as I know, no such evidence exists." -Bertrabd Russel
That all makes sense, maybe, perhaps, because he is a thinking person?
It really does not bother me what people believe. I consider myself an atheist, thank God.
The difference between an agnostic and an atheist is that both believe there is absolutely no spec of evidence that any God dfined by any culture ever existed. The difference is that agnostics think that maybe they should be open to the idea that one day that evidence will show up. I suppose that after thousands of years of recorded history and confirming that God has been an idea defined by human cultures for reasons that we understand, it is a little silly to expect that one day this fantasy actually becomes true. If so, which god? The christian God, Zeus, Ra? It's the same as saying that maybe one day we will find a white unicorn. Don't mean to be critical c40eb, I appreciate your arguments. The only point of discussing religion is to speculate logically. If someone believes something beyond reasoning there is no point in having a debate of beliefs. It's when they try to impose that belief on others that you have to question their motives.
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Last edited by mpraca; 07-01-2007 at 08:04 PM.
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