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  #11  
Old 08-20-2007
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What I also wanted to add is that once people leave, as most have left out of frustration and fear and I find that they are unforgiving towards their ex-home country. They become the country's worst critics...Certainly true for Guyanese....

(mind you, in fairness, if I owned a business, crime would be big on my mind as well)
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymar83 View Post
What I also wanted to add is that once people leave, as most have left out of frustration and fear and I find that they are unforgiving towards their ex-home country. They become the country's worst critics...Certainly true for Guyanese....
That's interesting. I've heard the Africans who were able to leave their respective countries in order to get an education, say, in Western Europe, almost never go back. Much of the work that the various NGOs do on the continent simply goes to enabling the poor but smart to get the hell out of there. What's left behind is an intellectual blight.
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Old 08-20-2007
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It's sad to hear all of this crime talk of some of the islands. I have a good friend at TI here in Dallas who is from Jamaica. I asked him once how often he goes back home to visit family. He said he'll bring them here for visits but he will NEVER go back. He said he spent too many long years of hard work and study "to get off that $@#& island!"

Sad.
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Old 08-20-2007
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I'd like to add,

I have had several Jamaican friends over the years and all were the most wonderful people I've ever known. Especially the ones who bring the meat pies back for me. Jamaican meat pies and Red Stripe . . . great stuff!
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Old 08-20-2007
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Hog,


There are 53/54 countries in Africa so I won't pretend to generalise to the continent. I do know a little about some of the countries in Western/Sub-Saharan Africa.

Its true that many nationals from these African countries, especially when trained abroad tend to stay abroad. (This is less severe in Africa than the Caribbean by the way) This is especially true when the country is stagnant politically and/or economically. There is serious research that also indicates that if these same graduates feel that there is progress and hope, many will choose to go back after their studies or their work terms abroad. In cases where, after years of stagnation/repression, once there is regime change, there are a significant number that tend to return (I'm thinking of countries such as Ghana and Mali). Many will give up lucrative careers and lifestyles to "make a go of it" back home.

When the West had very limiting immigration options (up to a few years ago), often getting there through an educational program was the only way out for many in the developing world. What started out to be a exercise in training locals to build capacity turned into an institutionalised brain drain of the best and brightest.

It still goes on but the "West" has realised it needs skilled immigration and so it is easier for many to apply without having to go through the "scholarship" program first. They know they can essentially apply at any time. There have also been a number of legitimate regime changes, particularly in Africa with significant political and economic progress in the last 15 years. So the skilled have options, its the unskilled that tend to try the illegal route.

From experience, I've found that hope, or at least the perception of opportunity (as opposed to the level of absolute wealth) is the best motivator. Countries I have worked in where there was legitimate hope, even if very poor, had a strong retention and return rate. and this of the "very bright".

The "NGOs" or Non-Governmental Organisations are an interesting group. (I used to work for several back in the 80's). They are a mixed blessing (and a mixed bag). Many recognise that to be successful they have to work themselves out of a job. Many do and have their programs taken over by homegrown "sister organisations" that they in turn continue to fund. Others look to this kind of work as their only "raison d'ętre" and continue to pursue a limited program of dependency.

Bob T,

As I mentioned earlier, I find the "bright" Jamaicans and Guyanese (in particular) who have left, to be the harshest critics of their countries. I think this is mainly out of a sense of frustration, simply because they know what "could be" and then get very frustrated by "what is" and they have little or no power to change it so they essentially slam the door.

On a lighter note, you must be able to get the Jamaican patties somewhere in Dallas. Heck, they've become so popular in Canada that we can get frozen ones in boxes at Costco!

For the red stripe, I prefer mine with jerk chicken and pork while listening to some Reggae on the beach and getting e-mails from co-workers, friends and family complaining about the snow storm that dumped 12" of snow....again.
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Old 08-21-2007
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Mark,

I believe you're dead on target. I agree 100%. I can tell my co-worker would like to go home to visit . . . deep down . . . very deep down.

. . . and yes, we can get the meat pies here and they are similar to the home made ones my friends bring back . . but not quite the same. There is a place here called the Caribbean Grill that is a really nice (not expensive or dressy) restaurant with live Caribbean music, great jerk chicken and the beer is cold. The majority of the crowd is Jamaican which makes it even more of a treat. They have an attached grocery store with all things Caribbean.
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From friends that I have known that still have family in Jamaica... If they do go back and apear to be doing well for themselves the Jamaican gangs will extort money out of you via your family or simply not allow you to leave. I can confirm that the Jamaicans that do end up leaving would rather fly their family out than risk flying in. They do not like to mention this for fear of said family.

As far as renting a boat in Jamaica, they do have to pay the local gangs to start up your own business and it just is not worth it. The same friends that I was refering to used to be fishermen and wanted to start a fishing charter to cash in on the tourism. Unfortunatly they had to venture here instead.

~Tyrone
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Old 08-22-2007
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Re: Island life/Brain drain

If you're not working in the tourism industry, you're working in menial labor. There generally aren't jobs for educated people on the Islands. There's little or no industry, few or no universities, and damn little to do except kiss the tourists' behinds. I grew up (2-8 yo) on Bermuda, and it was great (for a kid); but even if I had the option of citizenship (I don't) I wouldn't take it. Seen enough of it to know that a *** job in paradise is still a *** job.

just my 2˘
Mike

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"... the only matter of consequence before me is what I will do with my alloted time. I can remain on shore, paralyzed with fear, or I can raise my sails and dip and soar in the breeze." - Richard Bode, First you have to row a little boat (pg. 94)

Last edited by ReverendMike; 08-22-2007 at 04:06 PM. Reason: watch the profanity pls. ...cam
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Tyrone,
That's incredible... I didn't realize the problem was that severe and extensive.

Mike,
The Sailnet police are coming for you. Expressions of surliness are against the forum's bylaws. I'll PM you with the name of a good lawyer.
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Old 08-22-2007
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You did turn me in! You pig! I've now been edited twice this month, am I about to turn into the next CapeCodWeirdo or what? I can feel it, a powerful change deep within ..... no, wait, that was just gas. Sorry everyone for the profanity.
M

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"... the only matter of consequence before me is what I will do with my alloted time. I can remain on shore, paralyzed with fear, or I can raise my sails and dip and soar in the breeze." - Richard Bode, First you have to row a little boat (pg. 94)
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