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  #141  
Old 05-25-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwillems View Post
But what if money isn't an issue. I mean what if you can afford that brand spanking new Lagoon 400 with all the desirables from the options list that all the "cruising" magazines tell us we must have... And once you have it, you still have enough kitty left to cruise indefinitely and afford the upkeep (doing what you can yourself and getting someone else to do what you can't).

.
In that case, I am available for adoption.


There is a sweet spot between having enough room and having too much boat for you to manage. And that sweet spot is likely different for each person, family or couple. Some couples are perfectly happy with a 25' boat. Other families require a Lagoon for crusing the carib. Others want to circumnavgate in comfort, so a crewed 65' boat is the only option they will choose.
The type of cruising you want to do plays a role. If you want to gunkhole, then draft becomes an issue. Circumnavigation? different needs. Determine where you want to go and how you want to go, and find the boat that best suits YOU.
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  #142  
Old 05-25-2010
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Originally Posted by bljones View Post
There is a sweet spot between having enough room and having too much boat for you to manage. And that sweet spot is likely different for each person, family or couple. Some couples are perfectly happy with a 25' boat. Other families require a Lagoon for crusing the carib. Others want to circumnavgate in comfort, so a crewed 65' boat is the only option they will choose.
The type of cruising you want to do plays a role. If you want to gunkhole, then draft becomes an issue. Circumnavigation? different needs. Determine where you want to go and how you want to go, and find the boat that best suits YOU.
That's exactly where I was taking this... My feeling is that money has lot to do in what is "essential" gear and what makes an ideal cruising boat probably just as much as seaworthiness. Yes, of course if we are going to be all "purist", that sub 30 footer with a sextant, a compass and an old salt at the helm is probably a very noble way to look at the question... but IMHO reality is that for most of us, the size of our boat and the extent of gear we carry on our boats will be much more to do with what we can afford rather than what is considered "sensible cruising" as per the original post.

Again, IMHO... what do I know after all. The only thing I've cruised so far is the net. Lots to learn.

Last edited by pwillems; 05-25-2010 at 01:34 AM.
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  #143  
Old 05-25-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwillems View Post
This is really a very interesting topic for me... How about if money wasn't an issue? Most arguments I have seen here for the ideal cruising boat are based around the exponential increase in purchase and upkeep costs of the systems with each eack extra foot of LOA.

...

In short, in around 10 years when we set off, if all goes well, we should be in a relatively good position and probably not overly concerned about the cost of the boat and it's upkeep (within reason). In a case like this what would be the ideal boat for long term cruising? Would you still stick to a smaller vessel with less systems but a nicer pedigree (Tayana, IPY etc...) or rather go for something larger with room for plenty of toys to make the trip fun, a washing machine and a happy wife?
We chose a smaller boat than we could afford but the largest boat we could handle - smaller lighter sails, small enough that we could warp her around by hand if things went sour (or just to turn around in a slip so we could leave when we wanted to and not wait on tides/currents); use our dinghy to be our own 'towboat'. For us, that was a heavy traditional-looking 33-footer. The downside is that the short waterline makes her slow.

I may have missed what type of cruising you're planning, and that has to factor into your decision as well - our present boat is not one I'd cross the Pacific in, or go to Alaska, but it's perfect for coastal & limited bluewater cruising in the tropics. For example, very large opening hatches make it easy to keep the boat cool and breezy.

As for the washing machine - faggeddaboudit. If you REALLY want happy wife, plan your budget to allow giving your laundry to one of the locals to wash & fold & return it to you next day.
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  #144  
Old 05-25-2010
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As for the washing machine - faggeddaboudit. If you REALLY want happy wife, plan your budget to allow giving your laundry to one of the locals to wash & fold & return it to you next day.
Now that's a bit sexist... Who said my wife would be the one operating the washing machine? She's got me rather well trained
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  #145  
Old 05-25-2010
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Originally Posted by pwillems View Post
That's exactly where I was taking this... My feeling is that money has lot to do in what is "essential" gear and what makes an ideal cruising boat probably just as much as seaworthiness. Yes, of course if we are going to be all "purist", that sub 30 footer with a sextant, a compass and an old salt at the helm is probably a very noble way to look at the question... but IMHO reality is that for most of us, the size of our boat and the extent of gear we carry on our boats will be much more to do with what we can afford rather than what is considered "sensible cruising" as per the original post.
I think that is probably true for a lot of people, that they get as "much" boat as they can - it certainly seems to be true for cars, houses, and whatever else people buy. Many people do grow out of that eventually, however.
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  #146  
Old 05-26-2010
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I think that is probably true for a lot of people, that they get as "much" boat as they can - it certainly seems to be true for cars, houses, and whatever else people buy. Many people do grow out of that eventually, however.
I wanted to add something to this.

I think that a reasonable person will eventually get to the point where they see a boat in terms of its suitability for its purpose and choose a sensible boat even though they could afford "more". Many things in this world are just fine the way they are, a spoon for example, it could be bigger, have a longer handle, be more ornate, made out of gold, or whatever, but you know, adding all that stuff to a spoon doesn't make it a better spoon, it has been adapted over a long period of time by many generations of people to be what it is - just the right size, shape, length, weight, made out of the right materials, with the right surface finish, etc, to be good for what it is used for, eating. There's really just not much you can do to a spoon to make it a better spoon, it is perfectly suited to the needs of the human beings who use it. I think at some point people start to see boats in the same way, yes, you can buy a much bigger boat, you can load it up with all kinds of junk, base it on all kinds of exotic designs, etc, but in the end there is a boat out there for most people that just fits, and it probably isn't the biggest one. Human beings average a certain size, can lift a certain amount, handle sails of a certain size, move at a certain average speed, can be expected to deal with a certain amount of complexity, etc, and when you look at it as a whole certain boats just make good sense, good sensible sense.
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  #147  
Old 05-26-2010
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I have not done any long term cruising at this point, just weekend to multi-week trips, but I do plan too and so have been studying these types of issues for a long time. Now, I will not have the unlimited budget "problem", in fact we will need to fall into the extremely frugal cruisers crowd, so perhaps I bias my opinions to make myself feel better but here is one small thing I noticed...

I read a lot of blogs, books, magazine articles, etc of people, most very much better off then me financially who are cruising and one thing I often notice is how often they are waiting around because something broke, Things I do not even have on my boat. (This is just a huge generalization, and not meant to be negative in anyway toward anyone.)

I seem to read a lot of things like "So we are stuck in this port while we wait for X part to get shipped in, and then Y broke, and now we need to wait for three more weeks for the only repair guy to get to it and we really want to get going before the next storm blows in." And often times all the things that are breaking are things I will likely not be able to afford on my boat.

No matter how much money you have, even if you can pay someone to do everything, you still need to wait around for the parts and the people to be available to get the job done. I realize that a LOT of things will break on my old boat as well, but simply put, the fewer systems, the fewer things CAN break.

Of course few systems and smaller boats have huge negatives too. A lot less daily comfort, less room for things, no freezer, so not as fancy of food. I'm not knocking big boats or cool toys, but for me, a big part of the dream of cruising is to get away from the headaches of dealing with way more stuff then I need. Even if I could pay someone to fix it, I would still need to arrange it, wait for the guy to show up, make sure he does a god job, dealing with the effects if he doesn't, etc.

I agree for everyone there is a "sweet spot" to shoot for. I am still young(ish) and can give up a lot more comfort. As with all things in boats, it is a balancing act on a personal scale. But I think I see a lot of people being unhappy when it is not as easy to just throw money at a problem while cruising as it was back home.

Of course, I'll be rowing around to all the big boats looking to bum ice from their freezers, or asking if they got the weather report off their satellite system.
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  #148  
Old 06-05-2010
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Many things in this world are just fine the way they are, a spoon for example, it could be bigger, have a longer handle, be more ornate, made out of gold, or whatever, but you know, adding all that stuff to a spoon doesn't make it a better spoon, it has been adapted over a long period of time by many generations of people to be what it is - just the right size, shape, length, weight, made out of the right materials, with the right surface finish, etc, to be good for what it is used for, eating. There's really just not much you can do to a spoon to make it a better spoon, it is perfectly suited to the needs of the human beings who use it.
Off topic, but related to the above ..

I wanted four black metal 3" C clamps, the kind you can get at any auction, something I can maintain with a little tool oil from time to time and keep on the boat. I went to Lowes, they had some kind of galvanized clamps, and I was getting ready to buy them and thought, you know, I know it is weird, but I'd rather just have the black metal ones like the bigger clamps I have, I wanted them to match. So I decided to go to Home Depot. There they couldn't do metal colors at all, they decided to powder coat theirs a crimson red. By this time it has become a mission! Fine, Ace hardware maybe ? Nope, they had some kind of construction orange metal paint on theirs. Another store maybe ? No they had the same kind of paint except theirs was a battleship gray color. Finally gave up and went to the antique store and found them. That's what I was talking about above, why is it that people have to complicate everything, what's wrong with a black metal 3" C clamp that manufacturers seem to think they have to improve on it ? The thing is better without the color powder coat or paint that is going to chip off the first time it bangs against another tool.

I know, I'm getting fussy as I get older.
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Last edited by wind_magic; 06-05-2010 at 12:51 PM. Reason: sp
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  #149  
Old 07-10-2010
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I went in a 38 ft Ingrid, I had single handed all over the San Juans and leaving from Port Angeles to La Paz. I was at the very limit of what a 63 year old guy could handle. Go now!
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  #150  
Old 07-29-2010
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So, I've finally made it all the way through this forum and I must say, I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that there is no one size fits all category. There are obviously benefits and detractors for every decision.

My wife and I are two years away from "retiring" ( at the ripe old age of 31) and going on an open ended cruise. I've been watching boats and prices and I have decided that the majority of what we will end up with will be based on what is on the boat when we buy it. There are a few items that I plan on adding regardless of how the boat is equipped though. My Admiral has made it clear that she would value a water maker, which I plan on piecing together. I also want to have a SSB with a pactor modem for communication to make our lives easier and reduce the amount of worrying our families will do.

Of course there are some niceties on my short list, like a small GPS plotter (Garmin 441s) and the Standard Horizon GX2100 (my thought being that the AIS will replace the need for radar in terms of being run down by large ships at night or in the fog). But if the boat already has an equivalent in good working order, I would hesitate to rip it out.

We'll carry the typical redundant battery powered alternatives, but we've worked hard to save enough to make this dream financially achievable and I know that it will take some restraint on my part to not load up the boat and deplete our "cushion funds."

There are a lot of well equipped cruisers out there, whether the PO gave up on the dream, or is ready to switch boats. Our biggest concern is where to get the boat. Most of the boats that have some of the gear we want (good ground tackle, cruising sails, some of the above mentioned gadgets) are located on the coast, while we are in Chicago. We'll have to decide if want to try to equip something here ( I imagine it might be difficult to find someone with a lot of experience installing SSBs in the midwest) or if we want to move a boat here to move onto it ($$), or do we rent a truck and take what will fit and drive right to a marina in FL?
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