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post #61 of 156 Old 02-11-2008
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Vega, I like the idea of amsteel for standing rigging replacement. How do you plan on getting enough tension on it if you had to rig it up? Do you really sail everywhere with sheet to tiller set-up? That's AWESOME!!!

SS,
I can't find any info on the Bristol 27 so have no idea of the hull design but the reality is that most sailing vessels will self steer with the right sail trim, indeed I have less trouble with Raven (fin keel, spade rudder, no skeg) and our PB (28' full keel cutaway forefoot). It is of course possible that the reason for that is experience.
I'd urge you to have a loook at Alex's (Giulietta) sailing videos. One of them covers steering without a rudder and if that speed machine can be made to self steer then anything can do it.

Andrew B

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post #62 of 156 Old 02-11-2008 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulesailor View Post
Vega, I like the idea of amsteel for standing rigging replacement. How do you plan on getting enough tension on it if you had to rig it up? Do you really sail everywhere with sheet to tiller set-up? That's AWESOME!!!
I'd set up the emergency stay using a trucker's hitch. I've tested it and it works well enough. A refinement would be to sieze a block into the bight of the truckers hitch and shackle another at the attachment point. You can set it up quite tight that way. I have a backstay adjusting tackle too so there are any number of ways to skin that cat.

As Stillraining suggests, wire would be better for a headstay replacement if you want to put up a jib hanked to the stay, but, in a small boat where every ounce and every cubic inch of space counts, Amsteel is worth considering and it beats anything else for ease of use. I would rig the stay with Amsteel and set the jib flying based on what I learned on this last trip. I've rigged my boat twice with Sta-Loks, definitely the way to go IMO, and I say, if that's your emergency plan, better have a spare stay already made up rather than trying to cut to length and attach fittings at sea. If you have the room and the extra weight is no problem, that is probably the best solution. Then of course you have to figure on going up the mast carrying twenty plus lbs of wire or getting it up there some other way. and attaching it with clevis and cotter pins to a toggle at the top of the mast, in the worst possible conditions of course.

I think the most prudent solution for the headstay would be to bend the stay to the jib halyard and hoist it up, then set up the tension as described from the foredeck. I'd set the jib flying from the spare jib halyard.

But that's just my solution for my boat. Might not work for you on yours.

Actually, we didn't run the sheet to the tiller. We just trimmed the sails so that there was just a bit of weather helm, not too much, and lashed the tiller with a shock cord to windward. The boat would stay on course (Close enough for open ocean work) until the wind changed. On several occasions I didn't touch anything for two or three days.

I don't have an instrument rating

Malie ke kai
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post #63 of 156 Old 02-11-2008
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What is a "truckers hitch"?

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post #64 of 156 Old 02-12-2008
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Thanks Val

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post #66 of 156 Old 02-12-2008
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That whole site is amazing for knots...there's only one other...which I seem to recall is affiliated with British Scouting...that is as good.
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post #67 of 156 Old 02-12-2008
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Truckers hitch is one of the best hitches because it is so simple and sets up a two to one system and allows for tensioning to much higher loads than is normally possible, especially if you pull the bitter end through a cam or camming knot. I'm a rock climber as well as sailor so I carry around lengths of para-cord to practice knots with when I'm bored. Great mental exercise, especially if you start tying knots blind, a very useful skill.
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post #68 of 156 Old 02-12-2008
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lots to consider all right.

boat lenght certainly is important but unfortunately it is important only to you! I was thrilled and happy with a 16 ft Wayfarer for years. Now a 34 seems about right. My charter experience leans me to over 30 feet and sailing shorthanded about 32 feet. there is room below and the deck is short enough for a scamper to untangle something but long enough to stow things on and to get rid of that corky ride you get in little sailboats.

Things I have come to appreciate are a tiller or auto pilot, GPS, radar, and a good Antenna (yes, antenna and connections) on a modern VHF which has the digital selective code and panic button. Charts that never see the cockpit: nav table only--so they stay good and don't go overboard. I also have come to appreciate blown out lines, whether they are from the head or galley or related to engine cooling, and a simple steering rig, I like tillers.

The boat has to be able to lock down in a blow, and that means the rigging as well as your dinghy. The lockers belowdecks esp. under the salon seats need wingnuts on them to prevent them dumping in wild water. Somehow you have to be able to hotbunk in the aft cabin because if you get into it the veeberth is good for stowage and little more. Someone who can turn out decent food without chundering is valuable on a long trip.

As for personnel, you need folks that can look, see, and do. You are going to be exhausted if you are constantly consulted on sail trim and navigation. Also a sense of teamwork, with a little forgiveness for screwing up, which you will all take turns at.

I prioritize as follows: firstly it's the wind and water you are in... then the size and condition of the boat and its rigging for that water. Then it is about the crew and their physical/mental shape and experience. Finally it is about the safety of the passengers. Put these in any other priority and you are going to have a tale to tell.
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post #69 of 156 Old 02-13-2008
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vega, thanks for the explanation on the amsteel rigging. I'm going to consider implementing this as another back-up to my existing method which is bringing along some of my old rigging I replaced. My old rigging is one size smaller and has the original fittings but I think it will do in a pinch, and I already own it.

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SS,
I can't find any info on the Bristol 27 so have no idea of the hull design but the reality is that most sailing vessels will self steer with the right sail trim, indeed I have less trouble with Raven (fin keel, spade rudder, no skeg) and our PB (28' full keel cutaway forefoot). It is of course possible that the reason for that is experience.
I'd urge you to have a loook at Alex's (Giulietta) sailing videos. One of them covers steering without a rudder and if that speed machine can be made to self steer then anything can do it.
tdw, here are my hull lines (you'll have to scroll down the page to them):
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DG

My experience with sheet to tiller arrangements has been, for the most part, successful. The problem I have encountered the most is inconsistent winds. This makes it difficult for me to relay the information from the sails to the tiller without having to change the arrangement of block and tackle and tension of the shock cord. With consistent winds I have much better success.

Of course, experience is huge and mine has been limited. I'm hoping to get much better at balancing the boat and arranging self-steering systems next season, even with my new windvane available. My boat seems pretty sensitive to conditions so I'm expecting this to be a long learning curve. John Letcher's book explains the forces at work pretty well so, like you said, more experience is key.

From the accounts of voyagers I've read windvanes can break so having a back-up steering plan is necessary when I go for my first passage. I'll check out alex's videos on sailing without a rudder, too.


who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little
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post #70 of 156 Old 02-14-2008
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tdw, here are my hull lines (you'll have to scroll down the page to them):
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DG

.
Nice, I like that. Almost identical to our PB. As I remarked I had more difficulty making the PB self steer than the current Womboat but I put that down to not knowing what I was doing. Like a lot of people who get into sailing without having had much previous experience my idea of sail trim was not exactly out of the text books.

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