Sensible Cruising - Page 7 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 02-11-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,330
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulesailor View Post
Vega, I like the idea of amsteel for standing rigging replacement. How do you plan on getting enough tension on it if you had to rig it up? Do you really sail everywhere with sheet to tiller set-up? That's AWESOME!!!

SS,
I can't find any info on the Bristol 27 so have no idea of the hull design but the reality is that most sailing vessels will self steer with the right sail trim, indeed I have less trouble with Raven (fin keel, spade rudder, no skeg) and our PB (28' full keel cutaway forefoot). It is of course possible that the reason for that is experience.
I'd urge you to have a loook at Alex's (Giulietta) sailing videos. One of them covers steering without a rudder and if that speed machine can be made to self steer then anything can do it.
__________________
Andrew B

“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.” Terry Pratchett
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #62  
Old 02-11-2008
vega1860's Avatar
Swab
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: At Sea
Posts: 691
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 8
vega1860 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulesailor View Post
Vega, I like the idea of amsteel for standing rigging replacement. How do you plan on getting enough tension on it if you had to rig it up? Do you really sail everywhere with sheet to tiller set-up? That's AWESOME!!!
I'd set up the emergency stay using a trucker's hitch. I've tested it and it works well enough. A refinement would be to sieze a block into the bight of the truckers hitch and shackle another at the attachment point. You can set it up quite tight that way. I have a backstay adjusting tackle too so there are any number of ways to skin that cat.

As Stillraining suggests, wire would be better for a headstay replacement if you want to put up a jib hanked to the stay, but, in a small boat where every ounce and every cubic inch of space counts, Amsteel is worth considering and it beats anything else for ease of use. I would rig the stay with Amsteel and set the jib flying based on what I learned on this last trip. I've rigged my boat twice with Sta-Loks, definitely the way to go IMO, and I say, if that's your emergency plan, better have a spare stay already made up rather than trying to cut to length and attach fittings at sea. If you have the room and the extra weight is no problem, that is probably the best solution. Then of course you have to figure on going up the mast carrying twenty plus lbs of wire or getting it up there some other way. and attaching it with clevis and cotter pins to a toggle at the top of the mast, in the worst possible conditions of course.

I think the most prudent solution for the headstay would be to bend the stay to the jib halyard and hoist it up, then set up the tension as described from the foredeck. I'd set the jib flying from the spare jib halyard.

But that's just my solution for my boat. Might not work for you on yours.

Actually, we didn't run the sheet to the tiller. We just trimmed the sails so that there was just a bit of weather helm, not too much, and lashed the tiller with a shock cord to windward. The boat would stay on course (Close enough for open ocean work) until the wind changed. On several occasions I didn't touch anything for two or three days.

I don't have an instrument rating

Malie ke kai
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #63  
Old 02-11-2008
artbyjody's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bellingham, PNW
Posts: 3,146
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice
What is a "truckers hitch"?
__________________
-- Jody

S/V "
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -
1983, Barberis Show 38! or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.







Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #64  
Old 02-12-2008
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
http://www.animatedknots.com/truckers/index.php
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #65  
Old 02-12-2008
artbyjody's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bellingham, PNW
Posts: 3,146
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiente View Post


Thanks Val
__________________
-- Jody

S/V "
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -
1983, Barberis Show 38! or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.







Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #66  
Old 02-12-2008
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
That whole site is amazing for knots...there's only one other...which I seem to recall is affiliated with British Scouting...that is as good.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #67  
Old 02-12-2008
rennisaint's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houghton, MI
Posts: 140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
rennisaint is on a distinguished road
Truckers hitch is one of the best hitches because it is so simple and sets up a two to one system and allows for tensioning to much higher loads than is normally possible, especially if you pull the bitter end through a cam or camming knot. I'm a rock climber as well as sailor so I carry around lengths of para-cord to practice knots with when I'm bored. Great mental exercise, especially if you start tying knots blind, a very useful skill.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #68  
Old 02-12-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 139
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
maxcontax is on a distinguished road
lots to consider all right.

boat lenght certainly is important but unfortunately it is important only to you! I was thrilled and happy with a 16 ft Wayfarer for years. Now a 34 seems about right. My charter experience leans me to over 30 feet and sailing shorthanded about 32 feet. there is room below and the deck is short enough for a scamper to untangle something but long enough to stow things on and to get rid of that corky ride you get in little sailboats.

Things I have come to appreciate are a tiller or auto pilot, GPS, radar, and a good Antenna (yes, antenna and connections) on a modern VHF which has the digital selective code and panic button. Charts that never see the cockpit: nav table only--so they stay good and don't go overboard. I also have come to appreciate blown out lines, whether they are from the head or galley or related to engine cooling, and a simple steering rig, I like tillers.

The boat has to be able to lock down in a blow, and that means the rigging as well as your dinghy. The lockers belowdecks esp. under the salon seats need wingnuts on them to prevent them dumping in wild water. Somehow you have to be able to hotbunk in the aft cabin because if you get into it the veeberth is good for stowage and little more. Someone who can turn out decent food without chundering is valuable on a long trip.

As for personnel, you need folks that can look, see, and do. You are going to be exhausted if you are constantly consulted on sail trim and navigation. Also a sense of teamwork, with a little forgiveness for screwing up, which you will all take turns at.

I prioritize as follows: firstly it's the wind and water you are in... then the size and condition of the boat and its rigging for that water. Then it is about the crew and their physical/mental shape and experience. Finally it is about the safety of the passengers. Put these in any other priority and you are going to have a tale to tell.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #69  
Old 02-13-2008
soulesailor's Avatar
blue collar cruiser
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Casco Bay, Maine
Posts: 370
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
soulesailor is on a distinguished road
vega, thanks for the explanation on the amsteel rigging. I'm going to consider implementing this as another back-up to my existing method which is bringing along some of my old rigging I replaced. My old rigging is one size smaller and has the original fittings but I think it will do in a pinch, and I already own it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
SS,
I can't find any info on the Bristol 27 so have no idea of the hull design but the reality is that most sailing vessels will self steer with the right sail trim, indeed I have less trouble with Raven (fin keel, spade rudder, no skeg) and our PB (28' full keel cutaway forefoot). It is of course possible that the reason for that is experience.
I'd urge you to have a loook at Alex's (Giulietta) sailing videos. One of them covers steering without a rudder and if that speed machine can be made to self steer then anything can do it.
tdw, here are my hull lines (you'll have to scroll down the page to them):
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DG

My experience with sheet to tiller arrangements has been, for the most part, successful. The problem I have encountered the most is inconsistent winds. This makes it difficult for me to relay the information from the sails to the tiller without having to change the arrangement of block and tackle and tension of the shock cord. With consistent winds I have much better success.

Of course, experience is huge and mine has been limited. I'm hoping to get much better at balancing the boat and arranging self-steering systems next season, even with my new windvane available. My boat seems pretty sensitive to conditions so I'm expecting this to be a long learning curve. John Letcher's book explains the forces at work pretty well so, like you said, more experience is key.

From the accounts of voyagers I've read windvanes can break so having a back-up steering plan is necessary when I go for my first passage. I'll check out alex's videos on sailing without a rudder, too.
__________________

who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #70  
Old 02-14-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,330
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulesailor View Post


tdw, here are my hull lines (you'll have to scroll down the page to them):
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DG

.
Nice, I like that. Almost identical to our PB. As I remarked I had more difficulty making the PB self steer than the current Womboat but I put that down to not knowing what I was doing. Like a lot of people who get into sailing without having had much previous experience my idea of sail trim was not exactly out of the text books.
__________________
Andrew B

“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.” Terry Pratchett
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Retirement Cruising Budgets Randy Harman Cruising Articles 0 05-12-2004 08:00 PM
Calculating the Cost of Cruising Paul & Sheryl Shard Cruising Articles 0 04-03-2003 07:00 PM
Calculating the Cost of Cruising Paul & Sheryl Shard Her Sailnet Articles 0 04-03-2003 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:04 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.