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  #11  
Old 02-20-2008
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You'll need to call them at Ace Sailmakers. They're a good bunch, and one of the few lofts that makes Jordan Series Drogues. The person I spoke to, IIRC, Dave, said that the bulk of their business has been taken over by the manufacture of series drogues.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #12  
Old 02-21-2008
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thanks SD
they replied very quick
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2008
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Seajoy

I hope the replies you received here, are not the only research you've done on the subject. Most authorities and folks who have been in bad situations in catamarans seem to feel a sea-anchor is the way to go. You should obtain a copy of "Drag Device Data Base". This book has several hundred first-hand accounts from people who have actually used drouges & sea-anchors on all variety of boats.
I've never been in a life threatening storm, but as I understand, other than a well set anchor, the only device that may keep you off a lee shore, is a sea-anchor.
Marc
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  #14  
Old 02-22-2008
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Be aware that the Drag Device Data Base was published in 1990, updated most recently in 2000 and due out with a new edition shortly. Also, the Drag Device Data Base may not be a reliable source of information, having a relationship to the Para-tech brand of parachute sea anchors. The books publisher is listed as: Para-Anchors International at Amazon.com. An excerpt from their website:

Quote:
S/C-21: Vessel name Mutual Fun, Prout Catamaran, LOA 37' x BOA 16' x 6 Tons. Mutual Fun was hove-to to an 18-ft. dia. Para-Tech sea anchor in a whole gale about 450 nm NW of Bermuda in Force 9 conditions for about 15 hours. “Once the anchor deployed, it was like sailing into another world. No longer were we punching into the sea, but just riding over them.... We were able to say 'time out' during a severe situation.” (Quoting her owner).

S/C-22: Vessel name Stress Relief, Catamaran, LOA 33' x BOA 14' x 6 Tons. Stress Relief used a 12-ft. Para-Tech sea anchor four times in heavy seas en route to Bermuda from Newport. Writes her owner: “First Time, 5-25-97: 48 hours on the sea anchor, seasick. Second time, 5-27-97: water inside the salon -- hung on the sea anchor until daylight. Third time, 5-30-97: radar fell off the mast & engine broke -- hung on the sea anchor until daylight. Fourth time, 5-31-97: genoa ripped during the night -- hung on the sea anchor until daylight.”

S/C-23: Vessel name Laura Lee, Prout Catamaran, LOA 37' x BOA 16' x 6 Tons. Laura Lee used a 15-ft. dia. Para-Tech sea anchor to heave-to in a gale en route to the Canaries from Gibraltar. “It is very important to PRACTICE with this rig under windy but non-gale conditions as small mistakes could be disastrous under gale/storm conditions! We had a 'dress rehearsal' a few days earlier in Force 7 and learned the important lessons needed when the real thing caught us.” (Quoting her owner).

S/C-24: Vessel name Dream Hunter, Kurt Hughes catamaran, LOA 45' x BOA 24' x 6 Tons. Dream Hunter used an 18-ft. dia. Para-Tech sea anchor to heave-to in a gale about 80 miles ENE of Punto Del Este, Uruguay. There being a current in the region, the cat was pulled 24 miles UPWIND (!) in the 36 hours that she was hove to. “Tendency to yaw was eliminated by lowering the boards halfway. No problems with deployment -- flaking the long rode is essential. Used rubber chafe guards. Once the sea anchor was deployed the ride was so smooth and controlled that crew of 3 slept for 12 hours!” (Quoting her owner).

S/C-25: Vessel name Kapal, Roger Simpson catamaran, LOA 42' x BOA 24' x 5 Tons. Two days out of St. Maarten, Kapal had a close encounter with Hurricane Jenny (November 1999) and her owners deployed an 18-ft. dia. Para-Tech sea anchor. Kapal was tethered to that sea anchor for 44 hours in winds of up to 60-knot winds. “We are very happy with the result and certainly very glad we didn’t go through the eye of Jenny (30 nautical miles in diameter).”

S/C-26: Vessel name Sanyassa, Prout catamaran, LOA 35' x BOA 16' x 6 Tons. On her way to Fiji from New Zealand, Sanyassa ran into a nasty blow and her owner decided to deploy an 18-ft. dia. Para-Tech sea anchor. Difficulty was encountered in setting the sea anchor in those conditions, but “once the parachute was deployed all problems ceased,” (to quote her owner). Sanayassa was sea-anchored for 24 hours in Force 7-8 conditions, her crew managing to get much-needed sleep.

S/C-27: Vessel name Mango Mi, Chris White catamaran, LOA 42' x BOA 23' x 7 Tons. Twenty-one days out of Mexico and 350 miles from Hawaii, Mango Mi found herself in confusing seas piled high by 28-35 knot trade winds blowing over the unlimited fetch of the Pacific. Suffering from fatigue and worried about the prospects of surfing down 15-20 foot seas at 17 knots, her crew decided to deploy an 18-ft. Para-Tech sea anchor, in their own words, “to park it and get some sleep.” Deployment went off without a problem and soon Mango Mi was anchored to the surface of the sea, facing into the waves. “We lay at anchor for 20 hrs. and got some much needed rest. We drifted 8. 3 nm towards our destination.” (Quoting her owners).

S/C-28: Vessel name Catapult, aluminum catamaran, LOA 40' x BOA 23' x 7. 5 Tons. Catapult was tethered to an 18-ft. dia. Para-Tech sea anchor for three days when her crew ran into adverse conditions in the Tasman Sea. “The wind did not ever get to a steady 40 but there were rather large seas as is commonly the case in the Tasman. The boat rode OK but I did not enjoy the motion and my crew and eventually I got sea sick.” Difficulty was encountered in retrieval but the skipper came up with an idea: “I tied the boat end of the sea anchor line to a couple of large fenders and tossed it free so that the whole sea anchor rig and line were floating free. We then motored up to the trip line buoy…. The recovery from the moment of picking up the trip line buoy was a piece of cake.”

S/T-22: Vessel name Friends, Walter Greene trimaran, LOA 35' x BOA 29’ 6” x 3 Tons. Friends ran into a nasty blow with large and confused seas 60 miles off the New Jersey coast. Her skipper deployed a 15-ft. dia. Para-Tech sea anchor, but the 50-60’ of nylon rode snapped almost immediately. It is difficult to ascertain what happened, but the relatively short 3-strand rope is suspect. 3-Strand nylon tries to unlay under extreme loading -- the “torque-wave” associated with extreme dynamic loads can create a hockle or local stress point, resulting in failure at that point. From the owner’s report: “Rope was wrapped around Harken winches (3 times); rode went slack and tensed suddenly; rode snapped right near winch… the strands were somewhat fused together.” The solution would be to use a no-torque braided nylon rode instead. See also illustrations on the Wave Rotation page of this website for a possible explanation.
I seriously doubt that the only brand of parachute sea anchor out there is a Para-Tech... yet that seems to be the emphasis of the site.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 02-22-2008 at 05:26 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2008
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I'd also recommend reading this webpage, this page and this page. I'd also recommend reading this thread over at Cruiser's Forum.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 02-22-2008 at 05:52 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-22-2008
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WOW! Excuse me. I only suggested he do more research than just reading this thread. I wasn't aware that the ocean has changed since 1990. I didn't mean to upset the all-knowing seers of this site. Please forgive me Your Highness.

Humbly, Marc
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2008
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Gershel-

I was merely pointing out that the Drag Device Data Base, both the book and website, may not be as objective and impartial a source of information, since they do have a relationship and presumably a financial interest in a parachute-type sea anchor manufacturer. Finanacially-motivated sources are rarely in the best interests of anyone but themselves and their wallets.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #18  
Old 02-22-2008
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In a 46-foot catamaran, a sea anchor will put an awful lot of stress on whatever it's attached to. I've been told, and I tend to agree, that I would only use a sea anchor if the engines are out and the storm is blowing me toward shore. Otherwise, I'd use a drogue (or motor away from shore).

You can rig drogue with a Y harness so you can adjust the angle. I've tried it (on a Catana 52) and it's pretty stable even without the autopilot, with a bungee cord holding the wheel.

If you don't have a series drogue, you should make sure and put some chain ahead of the drogue for weight, and use a long rope, so the drogue doesn't fly out of the water between waves.

Think ahead on how you will retrieve the drogue (or sea anchor, for that matter). It will take some winching.

I haven't used either a sea anchor or a drogue in a storm. I've had a sea anchor on a Bahia 46, but don't have one now on a Catana 52. Had drogues on both boats. I have tried out drogues, but not a sea anchor, in wind.
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  #19  
Old 02-24-2008
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Dawg, I'm not sure I see how you can deploy a drogue and then go below and get some rest, or even just chill out in the cockpit. Don't you still need to sail the boat? And ini the kind of conditions that require a drogue, I would think you would need to sail the boat quite actively.

Also, I think (but don't consider myself the expert) that a properly sized sea anchor shouldn't really stress boat fittings all that much (chafe is a much different story). The boat still moves with a sea anchor, you are using very long lengths of three-strand rode with a lot of stretch, and generally it seems to me that there will be give in every way conceivable. Surely the loads on the boat are less than if you were at actual anchor considering the additional rode and the designed sliding motion of the boat. In my experience, a sea anchor is best essentially when you are having trouble heaving to, for whatever reason (in our case we have a self-tending jib and with the mast stepped so far forward heaving to is not the easiest thing to do). Retrieving them is a pain in the stern to be sure, but that would be a small price if it allows you to ride out a storm more comfortably and safely. At least that's my view.

I don't have any experience with a drogue at all, but I would be very curious to hear how you use it in practice and not still have to sail the boat. I'm not criticizing the technique, just in case that's not clear.
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Old 02-24-2008
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The two devices are designed to accomplish two completely seperate functions. In fact, a sea anchor deployed over the stern is commonly regarded as a drogue. The USCG uses the terms sea anchor and drogue interchangably.

I would second the notion on reading all the literature available, regardless of source. Much of it, inevitably, is going to be manufacturer sponsored. Why this should be a concern in essentially a life-saving device is beyond me. many of the smaller less capable sea anchors available specify "not for storm use" in their fine print. In such an obvious liability-ridden situation it's amazing that any sea-anchor manufacturer would comment in any fashion on their use.

I'd take exception to the idea that the loading on the sea anchor will be of the shock loading variety. The sea anchor is not going to pin you in one location, as with conventional ground tackle, and while the loads will be high, they will be more steady than imagined as the conditions that warrant deployment will already be sailing the boat excessively even under bare poles.

I'd probably prefer a drogue also if I was in a cat or a tri, given their propensity to pitchpole.
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