A Good Yarn

[chris_gee]

This account of a trip from Noumea to Opua in the Bay of Islands New Zealand, through a cyclone (the southern hemisphere term for a hurricane) in a 10.5 m yacht is very well written and deserves a wider audience.
The previous account of the same trip last year in a HC is in contrast and appears in the index.
http://www.crew.org.nz/NEWS/Cruising...From+Hell.html

[tdw]

That was great. Thanks Chris. Glad it wasn't me. I have no desire to gain that kind of experience even though we all know that some day we might have it forced on us. Interesting comparison with the milk run the Hans Christian had over the same ground. Good stuff.

[Valiente]

Quite something. I was surprised to hear that latitude can kick up 40-60 knots for days on end. They lived, so it would be churlish to criticize, but I've never quite bought lying a-hull over heaving to or trailing a drogue.

But then, I've never had to make those decisions. I noticed that the comments about suppositories and "bollocks" reflected my experience of Kiwi humour.

[uspirate]

Good read. one other thing that disturbs me is that after you had him suppository himself with his own finger, you also had him make dinner

[tdw]

Originally Posted by Valiente

Quite something. I was surprised to hear that latitude can kick up 40-60 knots for days on end. They lived, so it would be churlish to criticize, but I've never quite bought lying a-hull over heaving to or trailing a drogue.

But then, I've never had to make those decisions. I noticed that the comments about suppositories and "bollocks" reflected my experience of Kiwi humour.

Val,

Have you ever read the account of the 99 storm in those parts ?

If not - here you go - http://www.latitude38.com/features/nzstorm.htm

Essentially you are in the Tasman Sea aka the Ditch. Nasty horrible place when it all turns ugly. The same weather patterns that gave us the 98 Sydney - Hobart coming up from the Antarctic.

I also wondered about the lying a'hull bit. As you say, they got through it so churlish to criticise but it seemed to have the result of making their lives an absolute misery for no great gain. They had stripped her of all sail so maybe heaving to was not an option ???

[Valiente]

I'll check that out. The most disturbing reading I've ever done on the weather down your way is described in the book "Rescue in the Pacific".

http://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Pacific.../dp/0070486190

It's about a cruising fleet slapped by an out-of-season and poorly forecasted "weather bomb" in 1994 while going between NZ and Fiji and describes the fate of nine boats. There's a load of both sailing advice and human psychology in there, but the fascinating thing to me is that while a lot of boats were badly damaged (along with the crew), how few of them actually sunk. It confirmed my feeling that you should stick with the boat unless you can see the ocean through the bottom.

As for lying a-hull, I wonder why they didn't try a bit harder with the drogue, because they could have run off on a reach using the storm jib and a drogue at 4-5 knots without doing quite such deep rolls. Maybe it's because it was the kind of hull that needed active helming in that situation...it's slightly annoying sometimes when non-sailors (or nearly so) write these sagas and leave out the sort of information a sailor wants to know!


EDIT: That link was a hell of a story! Makes planning and preparation critical for that particular stretch, and as we want to go to NZ, it's likely we'll cross that patch.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by Valiente

I'll check that out. The most disturbing reading I've ever done on the weather down your way is described in the book "Rescue in the Pacific".

http://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Pacific.../dp/0070486190

It's about a cruising fleet slapped by an out-of-season and poorly forecasted "weather bomb" in 1994 while going between NZ and Fiji and describes the fate of nine boats. There's a load of both sailing advice and human psychology in there, but the fascinating thing to me is that while a lot of boats were badly damaged (along with the crew), how few of them actually sunk. It confirmed my feeling that you should stick with the boat unless you can see the ocean through the bottom.

As for lying a-hull, I wonder why they didn't try a bit harder with the drogue, because they could have run off on a reach using the storm jib and a drogue at 4-5 knots without doing quite such deep rolls. Maybe it's because it was the kind of hull that needed active helming in that situation...it's slightly annoying sometimes when non-sailors (or nearly so) write these sagas and leave out the sort of information a sailor wants to know!




EDIT: That link was a hell of a story! Makes planning and preparation critical for that particular stretch, and as we want to go to NZ, it's likely we'll cross that patch.

I'll have to keep an eye out for that book. Sounds very much like the same scenario in both tales.

Irony is that all those boats were running south to NZ to escape the cyclone season in the south Pacific.

It's the old story isn't it ? Don't leave your boat until you have to step up into the liferaft.

[Valiente]

It was called "The Queen's Birthday Storm".

[chris_gee]

Hmm. NZ humour tends to be laconic and they tend to understate. Males in a confined space under stress will look to macho humour as a relief.

Some have expressed surprise at lying ahull. It is difficult to comment on incomplete data, but the account raises a number of practical issues of importance to would be cruisers.

With the caveat that those on the spot had vastly more experience than I, some armchair comments may be of interest.

The skipper is from a leading yachting family and highly experienced. The yacht was a cruiser racer and had raced from NZ to Noumea a couple of months before.

Generally tropical cyclones hit NZ about once in two years though more come close enough to effect the weather. They generally occur in summer Dec Feb, though they can occur in May.

In the winter depressions from the southern tend to be centred further north in the Tasman. These tend to come every 7 days or so and take perhaps 3 days to pass. I suspect most arrive for the weekend. As most of the passages from the islands, Fiji, Tonga and New Caledonia (and Australia) are about 1100 miles direct, one is talking 7 days for a fast boat to say ten days.

Consequently one might expect to encounter some bad weather even after waiting for a weather window. I think it important to distinguish racers and cruisers. The former race, when the race starts, and would have more crew, who are likely to be fitter, younger and more experienced, though for some this would be in more defined and restricted roles. They would tend to push the envelope more than a cruiser and tolerate a higher degree of discomfort.

This particular report was of 25-30 knots SE on the Thursday with a deepening depression expected to hit Norfolk Island (their then current position) on Sat but not to effect them. Wind 40-45 SE on Frid and building seas. At over 50 knots they reduced to the storm jib. 4m swell

On Sat winds of up to 60 knots. They tack taking them more east of the desired SE. Forecasts suggest that the wind will weaken over the next day or two.

Sunday winds over 60 knots and sea wild. Skipper orders all crew below. Storm jib still up, so possibly hove to but this seems inconsistent with later mentioned concern about possibly pitchpoling which I thought was more likely when burying the bow and being overtaken by a wave from behind ie running. Seas extremely rough and cyclone first mentioned in text.

Mon winds still over 60 knots, and reports that the cyclone has now started moving back north. By evening several knockdowns, and the boat crashing off the back of waves. I would have thought this was more likely if they were not running downwind. Consideration given to launching a form of “sea anchor” off the stern presumably a drogue, but this attempt is abandoned. Winds now over 70 knots and huge seas. Storm jib removed and boat lies ahull. Winds 70 knots breaking waves and numerous knockdowns.

Tues. Winds ease to 50 knots. Raise storm jib and start to sail. Wed winds ease and seas lessen as they start to pass down the east coast.

Okay that is the summary of what happened, even if there are some inconsistencies as to course and being hove to and using a sea anchor or drogue.

Comments? Well one wasn’t there and forecast records are not easily accessible. However going back to basics number one eyeball and all that. The forecasts were not entirely accurate and were in conflict with their experience. They were there so should perhaps have relied on their interpretation of what was happening. Storms tend to track SW once north of NZ. By Norfolk Island they should have been out of the SE trades, certainly by Frid with SE winds of 40-45, one could only really interpret them as coming from a deepening depression centered to the NE so if it had been going to hit Norfolk it would have had to have been tracking SW as they can, but as they headed east if that were so the winds would have moved east then NE. Instead they remained SE and increased.

That suggests that as these storms will often move SW as they come down then turn SE this is what was happening and they were not only tracking SE along with it but on Sat turned east into the centre of the path. Even on Frid night it might have been better to turn tail and head west which in 24 hours would put them say 140 miles further from the centre versus 100 closer. Safe quadrants and all that.

Sea state is dependent on wind strength, duration, fetch and water depth. After 3-4 days of high winds in open waters one would expect very rough water.

As a category one yacht they are required to carry a sea anchor or drogue. My instructor favoured the sea anchor and recommended its being readied for use at departure - at least run outside the lifelines. That may be conservative but it may be better to do it at the 30 -40 knot mark rather than be unable to do it at 70.

Quite what they were doing before lying ahull is unclear but those of a racing background may be less conservative than cruisers. I suspect that at some point they hove to. As to lying ahull the boat may be flattened and rolled but will remain afloat. Okay for the young fellas but very scary for the more senior with a greater risk of heart attacks and broken bones.

I am not too sure about Valiente’s point about reaching with a drogue. I would have thought the drogue would hold you stern-to, with less risk of a broach. Once the waves started breaking I would want to be head on or stern to.

There is some debate about lighter faster boats and storm tactics etc. My bias in these waters is towards comfort and seakindliness. A storm is best avoided - even if it means holding back or backtracking for a couple of days. Better a couple of extra days with a good book than bouncing from all four sides.

The passage to NZ causes some anxiety and one does have to wait for a weather window. I gather some waited a month in Tonga last year. However, one veteran of some 25 trips gave good advice when he said you will encounter a rough patch at some point. Chose the place - like in the early mid stages where it will be less severe and shorter, rather than in the final stages when it will be more severe and longer.

No criticism of those involved intended – just a view from a more conservative cruising angle.

[Valiente]

Thoughtful post. I should have clarified that a) this is pure speculation on my part, never having been in this situation, and b) I meant more or less a broach reach, with the drogue slowing the boat via the drag at the stern and the storm jib providing just a minimum of forward sailing power, tweaked so that you are running before the storm and wave trains at a controlled 4 to 6 knots, but offset 20 degrees or so to reduce the chance of pitchpoling.

That's my understanding of the purpose of drogues, to slow the boat and keep the stern facing the advancing waves, but to allow the rudder and a small sail to keep driving the boat off the wind a bit. Lying a-hull in a racer or a tender boat is a little trickier I think, but obviously the skipper knew what was best, and armchair helmsmen merely speculate!