Refit - USA or Carib?

[tharper]

I'm shopping for a 30-35 foot sailboat to do some cruising from Florida to Mexico an on south to Cartegena. The boats I've been looking at have been 20 to 25 years old for the most part and are about ready for facelift. I'd like to replace/repair alot of the teak interior and cabinet work, update rigging, bottom job maybe wiring, electronics and other systems. Much of the work I'd would enjoy doing myself or at least be involved.
Could a refit be done less expensively and still maintain acceptable quality somewhere along the route of my trip or would I be better of just doing the refit in the USA before begining? I'll have plenty of time, if it takes a month or 2 or 3 thats not a problem. I'll remain with the boat throughout the process.
I would appreciate recommendations, experiences, destinations or specific boatyards with this capability.

[artbyjody]

Labor costs may be cheaper in the Carib... but offset with shipping costs for materials, could easily negate that... If you buy the boat in the US then it may be more feasible to get the work done in the states....may cost a bit more but you can handle more aspects of the deliveries etc... You'll need to actually do a spreadsheet and do some comparison bidding to see which locale works best for you...The other option is to buy the material in the states then go south and have the labor done... just all depends really - for the most part there probably is not to much you can't do by yourself as well..

[sailingdog]

One problem you'll run into is DIY marinas are fast becoming extinct in the USA. This is due to a combination of things, especially EPA regulation enforcement.

Certain parts of the re-fitting should not be left to do enroute, even if you decide to do most of the work while in the Caribbean. The standing rigging should probably be replaced before you leave, since a failure there can cost far more than the replacement rigging does.

[AlanBrown]

Brought my 1981 Hunter 30 back from the Bahamas to undergo a major re-fit a couple years back. Chose a boat yard (now closed) in Ft. Lauderdale and never regretted my decision.

You can find every piece of boating gear and equipment you could ever ask for in Ft. L. Have a marine refrigeration question, you've got a half-dozen firms to contact. Need some engine parts or spares, they're readily available. West Marine's flagship store is in Ft. L. Need professional riggers and craftsman, open the yellow pages. Miami and Annapolis would also be good choices.

The point I'm trying to make is when you need something, you need it now. This is especially true if you're on the hard. Waiting for the next cargo ship to arrive or the air freight shipment to clear customs, quickly wears thin. Add import duties to that, and it also becomes expensive.

My advice, get as much technical work done and equipment installed as you can in the U.S. For teak and bottom work which is very labor intensive, have that done where the labor rates are cheap.

[maru657]

Some Marinas in Mexico are getting good reviews, Ensenada, Mexico on the pacific coast has a waiting list.

[Freesail99]

to replace/repair alot of the teak interior and cabinet work

Where are getting your teak for your interior ?

[camaraderie]

My advice is as follows...get your rigging done in the states. Get any electronics purchased and fitted in the states. Bottom work and teak work will be cheaper to do in Grenada or Trinidad as will any other basic, labor intensive work. The best place in the Caribe to get stuff done in probably in St. Martin where parts/skilled labor are required, though I have heard similar about Antigua and never had that opportunity. But down island in Grenada, Trini or Venezuela is where you want to get good woodworking done.
Grenada Marine would be an excellent yard if you want to do a lot yourself and deal with good folks.

[billyruffn]

I would second what Cam has said above. If a new rig was likely to be part of the refit, I'd do it before leaving the US. The same is true for any other 'mission critical' systems, like steering, watertight integrity, and safety systems.

If rerigging became necessary while in the Caribbean, probably the best place to do it would be Sint Maarten. There may be other places where competent work could be done, particularily on smaller boats, but I have no first hand knowledge of them. Usually anywhere there are big international yacht races they will have competent riggers.

Sint Maarten has first rate marine trades of all types, but their labor rates are very similar to the US -- probably because of all the mega yachts that are based there. Guadeloupe and Martinique are also good places to have work done, but they are priced in Euros and labor rates were at or above US rates even before the USD took its nose dive this year. Also as you might have guessed, in the French islands the tradesmen speak French. Unless you do also, that can complicate things.

We had a very good experience refitting at Power Boats in Chaguaramas, Trinidad. Anything that uses local labor should be very reasonably priced and, if you ask around, probably of good quality as well. For example: in 2005 first rate joinery work was done by the shop at Power Boats for $15 or so an hour plus materials.) Trades where what you might call "local rates" apply would include paint work / gel coat repairs, varnish, joinery work, upholstery, and welding / metal fabrication, mechanical work and the like. Shops that do refrigeration, electronics, electricals and other more 'technical' work often have So. African, Australasian or European owners and seem to have higher day rates.

I wouldn't worry too much about shipping in parts and new gear for the boat. Almost anything you can find in the US can be found in Trinidad or can be ordered in duty free (for boats that are eventually leaving the country).

There are several reputable boat yards in Chaguaramas and the competition with each other and with yards in Grenada seems to keep their pricing fair. In most of the yards you can live on the boat while on the hard and some of them have apartments for rent if the boat gets too torn apart. I would recommend that you participate in the work at least as the general contractor / project manager, although you can hire 'project managers' to coordinate or oversee the various trades. In Trinidad, like many places in the Caribbean, things seem to happen more quickly if the owner is around and adding a gentle push as needed.

If you have a seaworthy boat that needs system upgrades and cosmetic rehab, and if you have the time to watch over the work, I'd highly recommend refitting in Trinidad.

If you'd like more specific information on Chaguaramas or the various yards, send me a personal message.

[tharper]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Of course I wouldn't begin a trip with the boat in an unsafe condition. All of the repairs including the rigging are purely elective and preventative at this point. Everything has pasted survey and in sound working order. I'd just like to keep ahead of the maintenance curve. Since I'll be cruising and flexible with time and route, I can go wherever, whenever for however long. Looks like I'll put Trinidad on my itinerary. By the way, I've been hearing about Rio Dulce in Guatemala. Any experiences there for repairs or just a general cruisers destination?

[LynW]

The six places I'd consider in the Carib are Chaguramas, Trinidad; Le Marin/Fort de France in Martinique; English Harbor, Antigua; Tortola BVI; Simpson Bay, St Maarten, and the marinas on the east side of Puerto Rico. At various times I've used the first four of these.

One problem I found is that you'll find yourself in a limited supply situation wherever you go. You can pick a marina/yard, but all will restrict you to 'approved' contractors for on-site work. As a result labor charges seem to have escalated in recent years, perhaps not quite as high as the US yet, though Martinique may be. Check the import duty situation on new goods, we were charged 50% in both BVI and Antigua, but much less in Martinique and Trinidad.

These yards are (or were) easy about DIY work including antifouling, which was a big plus in saving money.

The worst problem is punctuality. Not too bad if the contractor doesn't have much on, but it can be hopeless if they are busy. It took me nearly six weeks of exhortation, shouting, teary behaviour etc to get a 2-hour welding job done in Chaguramas. Scheduling work and deadlines seem meaningless in those cultures. I think for that reason alone I'd prefer to get work done in the USA, specially with a quote from a smallish yard willing to give a good price. Also, if things don't work out, yards in the US are much less inclined to quibble.