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  #51  
Old 11-12-2008
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I think in respect to Amustad's experience as an Offshore sailing instructor; you (logos) should not take the position you have anchored yourself to. I think we sailnetters have talked several other "new boat owners" down from their position of "I'm going to sail down the coast now; who wants to come?" plans; and if that did not convince them the trip out to Pt Conception did. The conditions outside of the protection of Pt Conception, Northern Monterey bay, and -maybe- the NE quadrant of Drakes Bay (if you can get in there and find shelter) are really, really treacherous during the winter. I mean it's almost "closed" to offshore sailing no matter how big your boat is and it only gets worse after early November. I think that's a big reason why Tom Perkins set off back out to sea abord the 289' Maltese Falcon on the last week of October after spending a month in SF; he just did not want to needlessly beat the boat up or wait out the storms that regularly come in. This last week was relatively light in terms of weather systems here; but the offshore conditions were nasty. Heavy storms are continuously coming in anywhere north of the Ca/Oregon Border with many reaching hurricane force as they come ashore.

Two years ago a new ~50' catamaran being delivered from South Africa IIRC was rolled and all hands were lost as it sailed north from SF to Seattle. The seas were up around 40-50' mean height and based on their last known position they were probably either in heavier seas due to the shallower waters inside the continental shelf; or they were rolled by a rogue wave. They were trying to find shelter in a small cove behind Cape Blanco

December 18, 2006

I really hate to burst your bubble; but it's the arrogance like that of this delivery skipper (and yours) that cause lives to be needlesly lost at sea. Have a little respect for the people who are telling you it's pretty much a no-can-do in your little 28' boat that appears based on what you have mentioned to be in need of a total refit before sailing it home to Portland. If you can't justify the cost of slip fees for the next 6 months; then you should put it on the hard somewhere and wait until spring. If you can't afford either; then find a place to moor it that you won't have to pay for (if there is such a place in the San Pedro or LA Basin). OR - Now this is a GREAT idea: Send it home on a Truck! It's called the I-5 passage and it is regularly taken during the winter!

Please, take our advice. Anywhere north of Pt Conception is really is not a place to be offshore sailing in a boat that is not just completely designed for heavy weather (like something steel hulled or a heavy displacement motor-sailor); and even in that instance it could be considered a gamble to head north at this time of year. The "storm door" has opened on schedule/early this year; so I don't think you can safely do either a coastal trip or a long offshore "tack". The Pacific High is unreliable now so there is no safe zone to sail west into if you went far offshore in an attempt to get away from heavy wind/seas.

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 11-12-2008 at 05:05 PM.
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  #52  
Old 11-12-2008
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Logos

None of we naysayers here are into fear-mongering... it's a simple concern for your safety and that of your vessel.(and, I suppose, for those that may have to try and rescue you in one of those nasty bits of weather)

Some of the most vehement against your plans HAVE been there done that, so please don't take their comments lightly. Many experienced offshore crews will remember the trip up or down this coast as one of the roughest/most uncomfortable (on a number of levels) than any other.

I've done the reverse trip in July and couldn't believe how cold it was until we crossed the California border.. weather was relatively benign for us, but still layed ahull one night off Cape St George in a gale.

Fog, shipping, gales, impassable bar harbours, there's simply too many things against you even if you were sailing a well-found known quantity, never mind a new-to-you boat in need of some TLC.....
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1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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  #53  
Old 11-12-2008
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Of course I'm considering it. I am also considering heading to Hawaii first. Then to Japan to see a friend and then home.
As I have said most likely I will be sailing these waters (the southern west coast of north america) until further notice. Just because I haven't yet and there is lots to explore etc.
I just think, on this other note, that some of you don't realize which conversation to have with me. You shouldn't be thinking: uh oh, someone who has never stepped foot in a boat and who knows nothing of the pacific coastal waters of north america is going to attempt to go north in a rowboat made of papermache in a bathing suit uphill both ways.
Instead think, oh an experienced sailor who has heard many many stories, some first hand, of this passage this time of year, is curious to hear this end of it, so to speak, as my original question asks, what are the waters like at this end of the coast? Is there much of a current around the Channel Islands? What is the current like down here: North to south as it is to the north or does it diminish or change? Things like that, local knowledge of the waters.
Like other boaters have at the dock here. No one, and all have heard just what we all have, that I am thinking about the passage north this time of year, ... no one... is lined up at my boat begging me not to go, to reconsider, to spare my life and truck my boat.
Rather, like any common sense people, we say, yah, rough trip, tricky- not the time of year to do, can be done but not easy etc. but we don't spend time raving about how it's suicide etc etc ad naseum. Get over it.
Life rafts and EPRB's are very important to have when offshore period. Regardless of weather expectations.
Dabnis, how many times have you completed a trip north this time of year in that 50 years? That kind of information would be of interest to me.
You guys may not believe it, but I might be able to tell you more stories about storms and boats in it from my neck of the woods than anyone else. I might even have first hand experience crossing the bar in ... less than perfect weather... hmmm...
So, what about local observations of the south coast? What about the old trade route (going out to sea then back in some hundreds of miles at anytime of year?
Does anyone have any real experience of these things directly.
And I do expect off topic, ghost stories, complaints about dry rot, etc in any thread or conversation- as you might expect me to steer the thread, started by logos, back to topic ; )
Now, I do hope we are all having fun, I am!
P.S. I have been in my 21' ted hood design flush deck racing sailboat in the upper columbia in 50kt (bare poles) winds- the sailboarders say it is, "nuking" at those speeds. 10' seas in the Columbia R.? Yes. (and that is upper, not mouth)
But hey, it's just a big mud puddle, right? lol
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  #54  
Old 11-12-2008
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[QUOTE]Life rafts and EPRB's are very important to have when offshore period/QUOTE]

especially when not adhering to time tested weather windows for sailing particular routes.
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  #55  
Old 11-12-2008
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I really have to point out, Keelhaulin', the arrogance is not mine. I just don't need the fearmongering. Have I claimed to be the world's greatest sailor? Have I claimed to be able to singlehandedly sail my dinghy through the eye of every hurricane? ... hmmm... no, I just object to needless rehashing of how horrible the weather is this time of year in the northwest pacific. Really don't. Other people you have advised not to go north may have been planning to and perhaps shouldn't. I am going to consider going north and gather information about it as much as I like- will I ever make the trip now or at some other point? Who knows.
But sometimes just talking about something has people up in arms just because they like to be up in arms. Rather than have a useful discussion about the difficulties of the trip, the absolute vehement goal of the gallery is to see that the merest mention of going north is immediately and irretrievably stamped out of the perpetrator's mind.
Perhaps this is because if one doesn't have first hand experience of something but has heard so much about it, the urge to throw in two-cents is too much to resist.
Privately, and in other circles, sailors and I talk realistically about the trip north and other ocean areas of difficulty because we know that sooner or later we will encounter conditions for the first time or again that become survival situations. I suppose we could all float in aqeous solutions in vaulted tanks seeing the world through mediums... we might live forever that way... but for me, I like sailing, and while I am not afraid of dying and of the sea, I certainly have the greatest respect for both.
I do have to say though that wading through it, many of you have offered useful knowledge and first hand experience- thank you!
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  #56  
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here it is in short (lol):

Logos:
Hmmm... what is the trip really like from someone who has done it this time of year?

Everyone:
Oh my god, don't do it, please, you'll die, oh god help us, he's going north, are you out of your mind, you poor fool, someone chain him to the dock.

Logos: hmmm... what is it really like going north.

Everyone: oh god, hear that, he's going north!? You poor sap, what is wrong with you, don't you know it is impossible or worse? You'll die for sure, those that have done it died and those that didn't wish they had, you'll be killed for sure and the murderer of anyone who dies at all in the same year anywhere in the world...

get the idea at all, guys? what about little bit chill? lol

Because I was really hoping for some (more) useful info but it's not that important. I thought the post would be interesting because there is so much hullabaloo about it, but not this provocative.

So, on to some other post. Moderator let's just delete this one jeesh!
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  #57  
Old 11-12-2008
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Voyage of madmen...

Quote:
Originally Posted by logos View Post
Of course I'm considering it. I am also considering heading to Hawaii first. Then to Japan to see a friend and then home.
I hope you're taking a jet

I think you give yourself and your boat far too much credit.

I've made seven passages to/from Hawaii and once across from Japan. The world record for this crossing from Japan to Calif. in a small boat I think is 21-ft. Was done by an experienced Japanese sailor with a well thought out boat...not a Hunter 27.

You might survive the passage to Hawaii if you stay in the trades and pick the right month, but Japan is another matter all together. The hardest part about sailing to or from Japan is sailing to or from Japan. The only time to do it is in summer, typhoon season. This area of water near the warm 'black current' is typhoon alley. The typhoons around this area are far more frequent than in the Caribbean. If you make it alive it was because Jesus was at the helm.

Sorry, you're talking total nonsense...go solo.

Good luck and please share your stories with the group if/when you make it. It should make for some interesting reading.

BTW, read "Desperate Voyage" by John Caldwell. You sound exactly alike...

Be jolly,
A Mustad
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  #58  
Old 11-12-2008
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Nah, Caldwell had no friggin' clue what he was in for and nobody to tell him different.
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  #59  
Old 11-12-2008
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GO Then!

Quote:
Originally Posted by logos View Post
here it is in short (lol):

Logos:
Hmmm... what is the trip really like from someone who has done it this time of year?

Everyone:
Oh my god, don't do it, please, you'll die, oh god help us, he's going north, are you out of your mind, you poor fool, someone chain him to the dock.

Logos: hmmm... what is it really like going north.

Everyone: oh god, hear that, he's going north!? You poor sap, what is wrong with you, don't you know it is impossible or worse? You'll die for sure, those that have done it died and those that didn't wish they had, you'll be killed for sure and the murderer of anyone who dies at all in the same year anywhere in the world...

get the idea at all, guys? what about little bit chill? lol

Because I was really hoping for some (more) useful info but it's not that important. I thought the post would be interesting because there is so much hullabaloo about it, but not this provocative.

So, on to some other post. Moderator let's just delete this one jeesh!

Selfish and immature thinking on your part, really.

Go. Do it! No one is stopping you. However, take responsibility for your own actions and decisions. Go solo; don't carry a life raft or EPIRB so as not to endanger anyone else. No guts, no glory, they say!

Then you can come back to this posting and say how stupid and cowardly we all are. I'd gladly accept that ridicule and admonishment. Perhaps you could become a hero to other newbie’s and write a book telling of your exploits (See "Deparate Voyage"). You might even encourage other salty dog wannabes to shove off in their trailerable boats for adventures in world cruising. Heck, who needs experience or sound vessels anyway? It's all about wind and water, no?

Be jolly,
A Mustad
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  #60  
Old 11-12-2008
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If you do go invest in a nice waterproof camcorder and some mounts so you can show us how nice it was Maybe even with a satellite up link like the VO 70's have. That way some footage would survive after the ditch (jk) I'd pay $20 to tune in
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