One Dead, one wounded in VZ piracy attack - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 78 Old 11-09-2008
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Whoa..hold on a sec .I think you completeley misread my post..read it again..I said it was an ethical issue..I never denied that it could work as a deterent...but questions the possible negative consequence. I stated a fact that pehaps it may couse more problems or wasnt worth the risk..never said carrying guns or owning them was inherently evil..or that I was even against it..just cant get my head around having one on a sailboat. It appears there are risks in cruising but arent there risk in going to my ATM at 1am to take money out. Could I be robbed and killed..I guess..should I bring a gun with me?

The FACT is countries that have more relaxed gun possession requirements have more gun related deaths...does that mean countries with strict gun laws have ZERO related crimes with firearms..?? Of course not..Does that mean the relaxed gun laws are entirely to blame for higher death by guns..?? It was a question relating to a published fact

The information you provided about low gun possession countries have higher crime rates is not accurate...it is a complete mixture...some countries with pro gun laws are high on the list and some are low..some coutries that outright ban ALL guns are high on the list others are low..no correlation in crime rate to personal gun possession...but there is a strong correlation to personal gun possession and gun related death..I was questioning the accuracy of that correlation.


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post #22 of 78 Old 11-09-2008
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Cam, I need to apologize to you if it appeared I was insinuating you actually wrote that. My humblest apologies. I should have known better.

Jerry

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post #23 of 78 Old 11-09-2008
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A comment re: Piracy vs Robbery I think the definition is part of an international treaty and not as set forth in your text. While I am not an expert. it has always been my understanding that any unauthorized entry upon a vessel floating is an act of piracy.
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post #24 of 78 Old 11-09-2008
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Are there any organizations or groups that track these events at one site?(eg. like Boatwatch for reporting missing/lost boats)

You would think that some pressure on the local agencies in Venezuela to address this (through mass boycott etc) would at least help mitigate the risk...maybe they just dont care. It appears there are a dissproportionate amount of reports from that region.


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post #25 of 78 Old 11-10-2008 Thread Starter
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Sab...even Venezuela's gov't admits the danger and can do little about it. Here is THEIR website warning of "danger zones". You can see that PLC is in an "alert" zone. Noonsite carries a lot of the reports and the Caribbean Safety and Security net keeps a database of all reports by island/country though in my view it is a bit unerstated. Welcome to the Caribbean Safety and Security Net
http://www.onsa.org.ve/imagenes/pira...avenezuela.jpg

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post #26 of 78 Old 11-10-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryrlitton View Post
Great idea. Where is this utopia where never is violent crime? Refer to post #12...(I think I just went a bit lower on the targeting list.)
Bras d'Or in Nova Scotia, Rum Key and other parts of the Bahamas, British Columbia the Azores,.. Maine ,Western Scotland...I think cruisers need to rethink the standard cruise to the Caribbean , I started sailing there back in the 1970's and now would not dream of going back. Head north !!!

Last edited by BrandyIsland; 11-10-2008 at 06:58 AM.
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post #27 of 78 Old 11-10-2008
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I live near Detroit and work and play there often.
"Detroit, where the weak are killed and eaten".
"Welcome to Detroit, now leave".
"Murder City".
("Home of the Detroit Lions". )

Don't carry a gun. Haven't been accosted yet.
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post #28 of 78 Old 11-10-2008
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In all the years I have sailed here in Scotland, there has never been a reported incident of piracy. There is the occasional theft, but none of those horrors. We have the Royal Navy too, if there ever was. The Irish, Welsh and English won't do it either, Norwegians won't, Danes won't, Germans won't.

You can arrive armed if you wish, but you will have to surrender the firearm when you arrive. You will get it back when you leave.

The weather is colder here, but you won't need an A/C. We will make you welcome too. It is probably only a bit further than Venezuela, and you can expect westerlies most of the way.

Pirates are the scum of the earth. A man is dead and only being armed would have defended him. Pirates are cowards. If you are armed, they will not be so courageous. They are savages. We are boat owners. Forget Venezuela. Avoid it.

Last edited by Rockter; 11-10-2008 at 07:56 AM.
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post #29 of 78 Old 11-10-2008
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Quote:
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I am very sorry to hear that, RIP Captain.

To the family my sincere condolences...If I were American..I'd ban Venezuela once and for all as a cruisng destination..this is not the first case AND not the last..just boycot crusing in the place.
Consider Hugo Chavez banned.

That's the sort of thing you get around your country when you allow or encourage Socialism, the nationalization of your resources and your military and police are corrupt.

Chavez has dumped millions - and I think the number might be in the billions now into fighter jets, tanks and is constantly mouthing off at the US about one thing or another. So far, we've been tolerant.

This is what we get for being tolerant.

Prayers for the lady and her family.

Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
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post #30 of 78 Old 11-10-2008
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To those who advocate armed resistance. maybe you need to rethink that. It is difficult to contemplate clearly and understand these things but violence is not the answer to violence. For sure it did not seem to be the answer in this case. How could any ordinary peaceful cruiser be prepared for such an eventuality? This is clearly a country in the process of self-destruction!
/sigh

Resisting can be anything. But, let me explain something. People are people, they are NOT SHEEP. They are free, independent and it doesn't matter where you're from or how you live, or what God or gods you believe in.

In my line of work, resistance is ALWAYS RIGHT. When taken hostage, you COOPERATE, but RESIST. If a gun is point at your head, you are probably going to die.

I'm going to die fighting.

I've been in these situations before. I'm still here to talk about it.

If you give up, you're dead already.

Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
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