One Dead, one wounded in VZ piracy attack - Page 7 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 11-10-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Calgary Alberta
Posts: 212
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
magnusmurphy is on a distinguished road
come come Smackdaddy take a deep breath. I wasn't talking to you or about you.... it was directed at NOJOY (I mean NONJY). Unfortunately I can't splice comments in so it just ends at the end of the list. I started typing and then had other things to do. When I finally push send, I guess you were first...


Now back to more important things; the tragedy at hand. I remember when there was a murder in the Rio Dulce earlier this year the authorities sent in a swat team to take out the gang perpretrating it and thereby winning the confidence of the cruising community. It'll be interesting to hear what the VZ authorities are going to do. My own boat is in Grenada and we were considering cruising to VZ. There's little chance of that happening now however. I have many cruising friends in those waters at the moment however and I am very worried about their safety.

M Murphy

Last edited by magnusmurphy; 11-10-2008 at 07:18 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #62  
Old 11-10-2008
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
alaskaboy is on a distinguished road
Below are seemingly straight forward statistics regarding persons who are licensed to carry concealed weapons vs adverse incidents among that group. I could not quickly find stats regarding crimes committed by the general handgun carrying community, ie, including the criminals who carry guns but are not licensed. Alaska does not require a license anymore. It confirms licensed persons are not gun-happy trouble makers. It would seem that there is a different element of society responsible for gun related crime. There were multiple sites that confirmed the below findings.

Gun Control

* Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. At the time the law was passed, critics predicted increases in violence. The founder of the National Organization of Women, Betty Friedan stated: "lethal violence, even in self defense, only engenders more violence." (13)

* When the law went into effect, the Dade County Police began a program to record all arrest and non arrest incidents involving concealed carry licensees. Between September of 1987 and August of 1992, Dade County recorded 4 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. None of these crimes resulted in an injury. The record keeping program was abandoned in 1992 because there were not enough incidents to justify tracking them. (13)(15)

* 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. (15) (my division 18/221,443=0.000081% committed a crime, and that is not necessarily a crime of violence)

* As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense. (7)

As of 1998, no permit holder has ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life. (7)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #63  
Old 11-10-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Personally, I think a well armed society is a much politer society... A mugger is far less likely to try mugging someone if there is a high percentage chance the person could be packing and that they could get shot for their trouble.

One of my favorite people is a 68 year-old granny who carries a Glock 9mm. She's a very good shot, and looks like a nice little granny...but will shoot you stone cold dead if you give her a reason. She and her family all have CCW permits... and get a free Glock calendar every year for some reason... Of course, she lives in Virginia... where CCW permits are relatively common.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #64  
Old 11-10-2008
sab30's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 240
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
sab30 is on a distinguished road
I wouldnt think a law abiding citizen who is carry a weapon with a permit is too much of a threat to societies...as others have said its the criminals who have these guns that become the "lethal combination"

But where do they get these guns (handguns specifically)...the unscrupulous gun shop owner...or the house they break in..knowing the odds of having a handgun in the house are pretty good with that many in society.

Im suspect the handgun death rate is so low in Canada due to our lack of handguns..they are restricted..prohibited weapons..law enforecement and target shooting (very limited) Hard for a criminal to get a handgun when there arent any around (unless smuggled in) Not many rove around with long guns to do crime..again I would suspect the reason is that would somewhat draw attention to yourself. It should be noted that Canada has one of the HIGHEST gun possession rates overall in the world yet homicide by firearm remains consistent with other non-US countries.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sab30
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #65  
Old 11-10-2008
erps's Avatar
the pointy end is the bow
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Conner, Washington
Posts: 6,112
Thanks: 2
Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 9
erps will become famous soon enough erps will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Im suspect the handgun death rate is so low in Canada due to our lack of handguns..they are restricted..prohibited weapons..
Your suspicions are wrong. While overall gun crime has been decreasing in Canada, use of hand guns has been increasing.

From this article:

Quote:
Use of handguns to commit homicide on the rise

In 2007, 126 homicides were committed with a handgun, 16 more than in 2006. The rate of homicides committed with a handgun has more than doubled over the past 20 years. At the same time, the use of rifles/shotguns to commit homicide continues to decline.
The Daily, Thursday, October 23, 2008. Homicides



I predict that as Canada becomes more urban and more diverse, your crime statistics will begin to look more and more like your cousins to the south. If you compare Canadian provinces with their neighboring states, you'll find very similar statistics. That was demonstrated by a study by a U.W. professor a few years back.
__________________
Ray
S.V. Nikko
1983 Fraser 41
La Conner, WA


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Boating for over 25 years, some of them successfully.

Last edited by erps; 11-10-2008 at 08:29 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #66  
Old 11-10-2008
sab30's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 240
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
sab30 is on a distinguished road
Good point ERPS..just to clarify I didnt say it was going down I said it was low

You are entirely correct handgun crime is going up quickly and becoming a big problem..but we arent selling them here..and there are not many around in peoples homes to be stolen..

Quote:
A barrage of gunfire in recent days in and around Canada's most populous city has police and crime experts worried about the proliferation of illegal handguns north of the border, many of them coming from the United States.

While guns purchased in Canada that are later stolen from their owners comprise a major source for the illegal trade, the coalition says smuggled guns account for more than half the handguns recovered by police that are used to commit crimes in Canada.

"Pointing to the obvious problem of U.S. guns coming into Canada has sort of been the invisible elephant that nobody's been prepared to address," Cukier said.
Guns stolen from owners still becomes a large factor but evidence may suggest that more guns coming in and entering society are a direct cause for the increase in handgun crime.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sab30
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #67  
Old 11-10-2008
sab30's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 240
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
sab30 is on a distinguished road
I think its a moot point...cant start removing handguns now in some utopic society..kinda like removing cars to reduce car accidents..it seems to strike me as the theory of MAD when it came to nuclear weapons. Need guns to protect us from BAD people that most likely have guns...

Again to refocus the thread I think consensus is everyone is concerned about protection and managing risk for what could be a horrible situation....I just dont know if the risk warrants a firearm..it may
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sab30
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #68  
Old 11-10-2008
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 63
Thanks: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
inshallamiami is on a distinguished road
um, any moderators moderating here? this is more guns/no guns, right/left etc. shouldn't this be in off topic, or maybe start a "fight club" forum ?

Last edited by inshallamiami; 11-10-2008 at 09:22 PM. Reason: trying not to fan the flames
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #69  
Old 11-10-2008
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
devastated is on a distinguished road
To all, camaraderie said it right with "..but let's get further details before jumping to any conclusions." However, the post he/she re-posted from SSCA is not entirely correct, is missing key details and contains an opinion on the situation for which he has no basis. Ken Peters is my father. Four cruisers were there saturday night and four only. It's disheartening to see all sorts of assumptions, incorrect ones, being made. Please respect my parents and their very brave friends in this horrible time of tragedy and let us all grieve in peace. Post your opinions as you may, but please do not post opinions of what happened, as you were not there. My father never had a chance and it's only by a miracle and bravery that my mother, Steve and Gloria are still here with us. Only seven people know all the details, and two of them are not here to describe it. Luckily, one of those two people will not be around to hurt anyone else in the future and sadly, the second is deeply missed. I wish safe journeys to you all. If someone also has access to SSCA, please feel free to post my reply on there, as I do not have access. Also, let it be known that my mother was not a part of posting this message. This is my voice only. -Christi, loving daughter of Ken & Cathy Peters.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #70  
Old 11-10-2008
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,878
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Christi...thanks for coming on here in your grief and in the midst of this tragedy. I was afraid this discussion would quickly degenerate but thought sailors should know about the violence there in any case. I hope that decision has not caused you further pain. Condolences to you and your family.
__________________
No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the point of a traveller? dwbecker Learning to Sail 9 09-25-2006 08:35 PM
Fears of Piracy Tania Aebi Cruising Articles 0 02-25-2002 07:00 PM
The Perils of Piracy Mark Matthews Seamanship Articles 0 07-15-2001 08:00 PM
Dead but Not Deceased John Rousmaniere Learning to Sail Articles 0 02-06-2000 07:00 PM
Dead but Not Deceased John Rousmaniere Seamanship Articles 0 02-06-2000 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:47 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012