Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

[GeorgeB]

I’ve been to enough seminars, training classes and demonstrations to know that firing a red flare in a non emergency situation is illegal. Call me naďve, but when a CG official tells me something, I tend to believe him. If someone wants to find the paragraph and sentence, knock yourself out. I do know that when it comes to California, the state adopted the federal regulations regarding boating. That way local police can do enforcement. I feel sorry for you guys who have local laws that classify your flare launcher as a “gun”. Must be a PITA to have to get finger printed, background checked and wait 30 days before West Marine will sell you a launcher. As for using one in the commission of a crime – well that too, is beyond my scope of experience. But I tell you one thing, I wouldn’t pull even a squirt gun on an Oakland Ca cop. Heck, I wouldn’t even reach into my pocket to pull out a stick of gum. As to TSA, I have done my fair share of traveling with inflatable vests and flares. And like their regulations say, flares are forbidden in the cabin of the aircraft.

[hellosailor]

"Must be a PITA to have to get finger printed, background checked and wait 30 days before West Marine will sell you a launcher."
No PITA, that's where the authorities are very frank about saying they will and do turn a blind eye as long as the flare gun is kept to a "boating" context. Is that itself illegal? Sure. But that's the official policy, ignore the conflict of the laws when and if the context says "pyro" rather than "handgun".
That's not unusual, you can openly carry a screwdriver and hammer--but they become illegal burglary tools or weapons when used or carried during the commission of the right crimes.
" As to TSA, I have done my fair share of traveling with inflatable vests and flares. And like their regulations say, flares are forbidden in the cabin of the aircraft. " Then you should know, the FAA and TSA officially say the vest can come in the cabin. But as matter of policy, the TSA inspector at the airport sometimes will not allow it. Don't try to bring one through LGA or SeaTac, they tend to be the among pickiest.
And you're not reading what I'm writing: I didn't say the FLARES were prohibited, I said you wouldn't be allowed to carry an unloaded, i.e. empty, flare LAUNCHER into the cabin. Not the flares, just the launcher. It's back to being a "GUN" and if you try to carry it through LaGuardia, you'll be detained or arrested.
"Tell it to the judge."

As to the USCG knowing whether there are magical federal regulations prohibiting the firing of a red pyro? No, their expertise is in marine regulations, not federal law in general. USCG regulations often apply to vessel owners and operators--but not landlubbers standing ashore. If red pyros were generally illegal, the millions of red roman candles sold LEGALLY by licensed pyro businesses every year wouldn't happen. Think about it. Those stores are heavily regulated in the states where they do legally exist. If they can't cite a regulation--they just might be misinformed. Or, you may be confusing the context. Like "flares" versus "empty flare gun". Two totally different things.

[GeorgeB]

I thought that we were talking about the marine emergency flares? Shooting the red ones in a non emergency or without prior approval is forbidden. All I know about aerial fireworks is that they too, are forbidden to the general public in California. If we can keep to marine pyrotechnical devices, then I can contribute. Roman candles and such is not my area of expertise (although I used to hold a Class A Explosives License back in my mining days). To be specific, Marine Emergency Flares and their launchers are forbidden in the cabin of the aircraft, but are allowed to be carried in checked baggage. The reason for the ATF regulation that the launchers must be painted orange or a combination of orange and white is to distinguish them from a “real” hand gun. Good to know about Sea Tac and LaGuardia TSA not being up on their own regulations concerning inflatable life vests. You can add the clowns at LAX International terminal to your list. I have had no problem with my vest as carry-on at SFO, San Jose, Honolulu, San Diego, Cabo, PV, St. George, Madrid, and Las Palmas. Flares go in checked baggage and I do carry a copy of the TSA regs when I travel just in case.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

Good to know about Sea Tac and LaGuardia TSA not being up on their own regulations concerning inflatable life vests. You can add the clowns at LAX International terminal to your list. I have had no problem with my vest as carry-on at SFO, San Jose, Honolulu, San Diego, Cabo, PV, St. George, Madrid, and Las Palmas.

As an aside, I carry a copy of the airline web page indicating that I can carry an inflatable with an extra cartridge. Just make sure that you declare you are carrying it. Mine goes into checked luggage.

[GeorgeB]

Outbound, I like to take my vest in carry-on as it has a larger (and not to common) cartridge and I’m usually flying out just in time to meet the boat and I just don’t want to risk not having my vest. I know other guys who have been forced to buy vests several times as they couldn’t get the cartridge they needed. The airlines I’ve flown never have checked carry on as I suspect they are really relying on TSA screening. The issue with checked baggage is several years ago a plane was carrying several (undeclared) cylinders of medical gas and one of them exploded at altitude. That incident had the airlines tightening up on their restrictions and why in the old days it was safer to declare the vest at the ticket agent. I “lost” a cartridge once doing that. The funny thing in all of this is my vest is made by the world’s leading manufacturer of airline life vests, rafts and escape chutes. Go figure.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

The funny thing in all of this is my vest is made by the world’s leading manufacturer of airline life vests, rafts and escape chutes. Go figure.

Yep - there is probably one under your seat on the plane. The inflatable pfd's were originally designed by Mustang for military use. My first one says "Air Force" on it. They had to be talked into getting the CG certified.

[mzatanoskas]

How about simple visual deterrents like the fake security camera for burglaries...

I suggest a gas mask and a hose/some kind of spraying device!

If a boat full of unfriendly fishermen approached your boat during the day (like what happened to J Baldwin in the Philippines) and you stood up looking like this with a hose pointed at them...

I know I'd back off!

It would work whoever was on watch, young or old...

[Brent Swain]

A lady in Comox once tried to commit suicide with a plastic flare gun. She pointed it, point blank, at her chest, and pulled the trigger. It bounced off, and bounced around the cabin, setting the boat on fire. Only burned hell out of her tits, but didn't penetrate. A slingshot has more power.

[ftldiver]

I think other than throwing gas, (Molotov cocktail), and starting a fire, flare guns are over rated as weapons.

a slingshot, with some real shot has range and can hurt or kill. up to about 25yds. if you practice.

spear gun at < 20 yards, or cross bow, but nobody;s really going to carry one.
and nobody's going to blink if you have 5 spare spears.

and slingshot is for those damn birds, honest officer.

[Capt Len]

I would think it an easy project to turn a monel insert to fit a Very type flare pistol. 3/4 " is for 12 gauge but a 12 gauge(common size) could be sized down to 4/10 for a lead flare.Full 12 g would be hard on the wrist but skeet charge would work well. Problem is ,you'd only get one shot so make it count.Not a full choke,eh!