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  #51  
Old 09-26-2012
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

I agree. I don;t think the responses on this issue are very well thought out. For all the angst about having guns or sliding some kind of gun past customs, I sure would like to hear about some recent example where there is a country with significant crime and they still want to fine/sieze somebody's boat. After all Honduras has the world's highest per capita murder rate. And the rest of Central America, less Costa Rica are not that far behind. And then there is Mexico. I live in Austin, Tx. our hairdresser/barber who is a dual citizen, refuses to drive to Laredo, park her car on the American side, walk across the bridge and go to her doctor. Women disappear there. A lot.
And I am supposed to carry a plastic AK 47? Shoot somebody with a flare gun?
Part of the problem with this discussion is an inability to discuss magnitude of risk. In an isolated South Pacific island or maybe the Bahama's or Windward/ Leewards, if someone wanted to it would be hard to do a major crime. Everybody would know almost immediately. These places are so small and close knit.
So let me talk about petty theft, burglary and minor, poorly thought out hijackings or stick ups on the water. First, I can see why the local, mayor/chief/headman/cop doesn't want a bunch of jumpy first world yachties armed to fight Somali pirates. Might be best to have the firepower locked up. What could you do? For starters. lock stuff up. Hoist out your dink at night. Run a long cable from the motor, up the boat and and leave about 6 foot thru the front cleat. Tie up and lock up. Lock your door/hatch at night. I do it on land at night, why not make a solid screen door and use it? Come on, you lock your door in town.
There are some steps that seem obvious that I am not hearing in this thread. If the problem is a cat burgler or some kids out to unscrew a cleat or cut off some line, why not some form of alarm? One guy used tacks on deck. Better, how about rigging the top strand of your rail, which is your perimeter fence with a switch? Pull on the cable/rail and it turns on the spreader lights or trips an alarm. More serious but I still have not heard it would be an electric cattle fence. Doesn't have to be on or even deployed all the time. But sure will take the starch out of somebody real quick. And might make some US law enforcement types understand the phrases, "permission to come aboard?" or "do you have jurisdiction?".
Ok, what about a situation where you are not sure of someone's intentions? At least at night if someone has crawled aboard you can be sure they are up to no good. Is that guy an over agressive fish salesman or something worse? How can you say" don't come on my boat without saying I'm gonna kill you? " For starters, how about being real clear ? Be agressive" You, you don't have permission to come on my boat" " No Molestar!" Shine a light in their eyes. Turn on your spreader lights. It should solve the problem. If not you know something is up. You are justified to go to the next level in any country.
It seems that the big advantage you have against anyone in a small boat is simply height and the difficulty of clambering up. You did flip the ladder up, right? Don't give that advantage up. It seems to me that 2 obvious and "peaceful" weapons are wasp spray and a baseball bat. You do have a bat for fishing? Goes with the pole hook, the rum and the hacksaw. You keep these 2 in the cockpit. Someone tries to climb up you yell then tap them on the knuckles. They don;t get the idea, there is no upper limit as to how hard you can hit. But maybe you don't want/can't get physical? Wasp spray is a serious weapon. There is an awful lot in a can and it goes out 20 feet. Even with wrap around sunglasses, which is why the bad boys wear them, you can;t win. Being hosed with toxic, stinging spray in they eyes, stops anyone. You can't see, you can't fight.
Even if someone pulls a gun in a small boat, you still have height. You can back up to be a smaller or nonexistant target. You can hose them over the edge. And shout for someone to bring the gun. Even if you don;t have one.
I really haven't been impressed with most of the other solutions that I have seen in these posts. Maybe a spear or sword against one person. Be careful they don't take it away from you. There seems to be lots of macho posturing on threads like this. How many of these people have been in a real serious situation? Things happen fast. Most criminals are opportunists, they go for the easy stuff. Can't tell you how many situations I have avoided by looking the guy in the eye, smiling and saying Hi. Same for boats, stay out of harms way and have a real solution that is ready right now.
I guess I should go on into real shoot em up situations. They exist. Kidnapping is a big problem in Latin America. I worry that the locals will figure out how to take boats. A couple of guys in a dinghy is one thing, a whole boat load of guys in a fishing boat is entirely different. I read one comment from a former Brit SAS, that's Special Forces! He said that he doubted that he could hit anyone at 100 yards with a rifle. Make that 50 yards for an experienced deer hunter. Never handled a gun? Ten yards is more like it with both boats rocking.
The classic solution is a blunderbuss. Or in modern parlance, a pump shotgun. Which gets me to a question. Who wants to surrender your gun at your first port of call? That means you have to go back there to leave the country. You don't need one in the Med. Or the South Pacific, or the Windward/Leewards. Might be real nice in Indonesia, or the Phillipines or going south thru the Suez canal. My question is, can you get Fed Ex to ship your gun, under bond, to a specific port? Just Asking.
Sorry for the long post. And frankly, I have cut this down too much.
Thanks,
Lark
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  #52  
Old 09-26-2012
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

Wasp spray is NOT a serious weapon. The notion that it is, is nothing more than an urban legend. I've been sprayed with wasp spray before, accidentally. It did not even come CLOSE to incapacitating me.

If you don't want to carry a gun, for whatever reason, my advice would be a squirt bottle full of amonia. To customs it is just a cleanser. Give someone a squirt of that in the face, though, and they are going to be in a world of hurt.

Some fishing sinkers in a sock can also work pretty well. Have that in one hand, and the amonia in the other, and I think you would be about as well armed as you are going to get, without opting for a real firearm.
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Old 09-26-2012
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

A starting fluid can and a Bic lighter will do a lot of damage at close range and I have used this method before............... a mini flamethrower...... there is a very long thread about this already if you want to do the research. captg
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  #54  
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/politi...66.html#893566
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  #55  
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

I hate writing these things because I always think of things I should have said after I post. I like wasp spray because you can discharge a whole can of it in someones face,at a significant distance even into the wind. While I disagree with denverdon, it is not too much of a disagreement. As I remember a Super Soaker with ammonia is a ghetto weapon. I like the wasp spray because it is an innocuous spray can and can get thru any customs. "The wife is very allergic, we always carry it, see here is the EpiPen" What can they say?
The point I wanted to make is different. You can good vibe your way thru a whole series of confrontations. You should always try. Having a weapon that is not obviously a life threatening weapon is a good place to start. Smile and tell them they can't come aboard. Or they need to leave now and you will talk to them in their boat is a far better way to deal with a confrontation. These type of threads tend to spin off into way too much technology and not enough communication. Guess it's because we are guys.
Also, there is an old Texas beer hall trick. The guy is up front, loud and in your face. But he can be talked down. I'ts his girl that has the gun in her purse. She is going to end it if somebody doesn't calm down. On a boat, she is below, calling the cops. And who knows what she is going to come out with?
Having a plan is way better than not having a plan.
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  #56  
Old 09-28-2012
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotlark46 View Post
....
Why? Why?? WHY???

This thread died a natural death 7 months ago! Why resurrect it? There are so many other less rancorous threads where everybody gets along, threads that everyone agrees on like the best type of anchor, varnish, or storm tactic.

Oh, and welcome to SailNet.

MedSailor
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Last edited by MedSailor; 09-28-2012 at 01:15 AM.
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  #57  
Old 09-29-2012
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

If you really want a simple but effective "Low Tech" device you could employ the old sailing-ship man's weapon--a slung shot. This wonderfully simple thing was a lead weight on a piece of wire or strong cord about ten to twelve inches long, although some were a bit longer, with a handle or toggle on the other end. With a little practice one can withdraw it from a pocket in the palm of the hand, then whip it across an assailant's face where it will momentarily or permanently disturb them.

The cord can also be used as a garotte to complete the job, or you can then sort out the next knife-wielder, because you can reach him while you are out of his reach. A whack on the wrist will shatter bones, and the knife will drop.

You could make up one for each hand. They only take a few moments to make, and one need not carry them on to airplanes. If you do make up more than one, you will also discover that with a little practice you can throw them with surprising force and reasonable accuracy. For those who fondly imagine that intruders are just "friends we have not yet met" or impoverished fisher folk with poor toilet training, leave these close-quarter weapons alone. You will by nature probably lack the necessary determination to defend yourself, and these take some practice to learn to use swiftly. They are a surprise weapon primarily. Use them against pumpkins to begin with--at least you can make some nice soup out of the undamaged portions of the victims.
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Last edited by Mike Banks; 09-29-2012 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 10-24-2012
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

We normally keep our FishHawk Bow fishing rig handy. Also spearguns help.
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  #59  
Old 10-25-2012
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

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We normally keep our FishHawk Bow fishing rig handy. Also spearguns help.
And both, just like a gun, will be impounded or locked up when you enter certain countries.
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Old 10-25-2012
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Re: Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons

DenverOd,
Definety correct. Always check the rules for where you're headed. And even then that might not be enough. We've been from Clearwater,Fl to Panama. Most countries officials asked about firearms but did not look, one looked, and one said " I'm a sailor, we know you all have weapons onboard but you don't need them here, leave them on your boat if you please". But our equipement is used for food so it stays.
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