Production Boats and the Limits - Page 13 - SailNet Community
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post #121 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009
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SD,
How are you today?
I agree wholeheartedly. Our boy from age about 6 could take a day watch and could transfer pos to chart etc. He could use the radio properly, steer, understand the echo sounder and many other things.

So, I think its all good for Mr G and his gang. A bendytoy most likely will have an in mast furler so to minimise muscle needed. He should know all about it by the time he gets here. I see what you are saying about many people jumping into the Queen Mary size yacht first. Mind you, you havent enough room to swing a cat. ( I know - try harder)
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post #122 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009
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Thumbs up What do I think of her ?

I'm taking her home to meet my mother.



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LOL... he's a local to my sailing area... And you're very welcome... the dark side of the force is very seductive...

Here's a photo of one of his Hammerhead 54 trimarans under sail.



What do you think of her??

Boatless and Looking 30 - 35 feet.
Winter 2015 Vieques, PR
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post #123 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009
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I'm good... Boat's in the water... will be going down to the marina tomorrow for a couple of days on the boat to commission her for the season.

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #124 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009
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Congratulations... and if you come by to meet her designer, let me know... his office is about 15 minutes from my boat.
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I'm taking her home to meet my mother.

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #125 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009
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SD - have a great time
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post #126 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009 Thread Starter
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Okay - so a quick summary of the wildly varying sentiment of the past pages, which is now close to becoming the definitive gospel on BAPDs for all time...

General Rules:
1. "Blue water" and/or "offshore" can be defined for our purposes as a 5 day passage from anchorage to anchorage (due to the modern weather window). It's beyond what most think of as "coastal" cruising, but it's not a pull across the Pacific either. (That said - these boats CAN also do a longer hop without major issues. See Givens below).
2. The unforeseen weather limit we seem to have set is a strong gale/"weak" storm (e.g. Force 9-10). This means that if you were unlucky enough to get caught in one, you'd still feel relatively safe in your production boat with appropriate heavy weather precautions (e.g. - storm sails, drogues, etc.). In other words, it's not going to fall apart around you.

General Givens:
1. It is understood that the vast majority of modern production boats can and have indeed circumnavigated - some with major modifications and strengthening, others without. Virtually any boat can indeed be sailed virtually anywhere in the right conditions. But this particular conversation is centered around the rules above as this is where most sailors will play.
2. It is understood that the boat typically outlasts the sailor's will/ability even in the worst of conditions.
3. It is understood that there are a million variables in all these estimations from tankage, to crew size, to boat size, to gear, etc. But this discussion is a wildly irresponsible rule of thumb exercise - so there you go.
4. When it comes to separating the first and second tiers - it probably comes down more to comfort than toughness. But, few will argue that comfort ain't a good thing in the long run. So there you go.

The True Contenders:
1. Beneteau: seems to get high marks all-round as a boat that is well-built, fast, serviceable, comfortable, and sturdy. All-round winner.
2. Catalina: seems to be the next in line in the above areas - though CD will protest wildly that "Bene's got nothin'. Jeff likes my boat best."
3. Jenneau: Right in the hunt - but arguable as to where it finally falls. Serviceability? Better than newer Hunters?
4. Hunter: seems to still be suffering from "poor design" during previous runs - yet has seemingly improved in the last few years. It seems the jury is still out on this one.

The Second Tier:
1. Tartan: older ones at least (say pre '90?). problems with hatch design, etc. discussed, but still liked.
2. Sabre: tough boats - but some problems listed.
3. Hallberg Rassy: starts to move out of typical "production boat" world and into high-priced "elite" boats (same with OVNI, etc.) that are more "blue" than "production".
4. From here we probably pass into the realm of "lesser" blue water boats. So I'll stop here.

Fugedaboudit?:
1. Irwin: still personally not convinced of that this one fails the test. built lighter and for a lower cost point - but does that completely move it out of the contender category?
2. O'Day: a lot of them around, but no one willing to go to bat for it.
3. McGregor: the big ones rock - but anything less than 45'+ gets a nose thumb and a good heckling.
4. Any multi-hull. Those things are just abominations to sailing. Heh-heh.

What have we left out?

Last edited by smackdaddy; 04-29-2009 at 03:41 PM.
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post #127 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009
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Hiya Smack,
I think you nailed it.

Last edited by St Anna; 04-29-2009 at 03:17 PM.
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post #128 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009
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However, I strongly feel that any boat you get has to be capable of being handled singlehandedly by the weakest adult crew member that will normally be aboard her. There will be times, especially if you have a younger child, that the other person will not be available to help do things like reef the sails when it needs to be done.
Graeme, this is precisely the reason I didn't get the 50 footer I could afford, and instead got the 41-footer my wife could handle solo. Distance sailing is essentially watch-keeping, and the watch-keeper is the skipper. The skipper, besides the fairly obvious aspects of looking around for shipping, awash containers, sleeping whales, interesting flotsam, slicks and derelict Beneteaus, is also busy inspecting for chafe, noting the position, checking the sail set, looking for loose or squeaky bolts on mounts, vanes, lifelines, loose pins on shackles, turnbuckles, retying lashings, checking oil and temps on engines, checking amps on batteries, checking water levels, sea state, albatrosses and making sure the cat eats ALL the ex-flying fish on the foredeck.

You, off-watch, are likely making dinner, cleaning the head, teaching your kid what she isn't learning in school (no school) or repairing, painting, sealing, varnishing, oiling or straightening or bending something. You aren't looking out the porthole...that's the skip's job.

After four hours, you're the skip.

Running the boat is therefore sequential solo gigs. If your wife isn't bigger than you, get the biggest boat SHE can handle, not you.

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post #129 of 2155 Old 04-29-2009
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Another vote for the smaller boat. While I get the desire for more room with a child on board, the ease of sailing a smaller boat makes a lot of sense. You can still have nice comfort on a 40 footer.

Have to disagree about forgetting multi-hulls. I think you should really look in to the pros and cons of monos and multis - talking to people who are partial to each side. The flatter ride of the multi may be a big advantage with a child on board -- easier for them to do other stuff when they are bored of sailing.
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Okay - so a quick summary of the wildly varying sentiment of the past pages, which is now close to becoming the definitive gospel on BAPDs for all time...
I think I would call this "a good start", but it neglects major makers like Dufour, Hanse, Farr, Saga and J-Boat, and ignores that Tartan are making boats equal in seaworthiness to Beneteau (some models, anyway), and ignores a huge swath of production boats made in the thousands, but no longer being produced, like the C&C Landfall series, CS 36 and 42, Niagara 35 and 42, the bigger Pearsons, Gulfstar, Southerly, Peterson...yadda yadda.

We haven't even gotten to the "old shoe" class, like Westsail, Bristol, the various Taiwan-built cutters and schooners and clippers. The Island Packets, the Passports, the Shannons. Basically, anything Alex finds amusing.

And then there's the 10,000 steel or ferrocement Roberts designs out there, and the odd fibreglass replica of "Spray" with authentic teak and brass below, some in the cook's peg leg and parts of the parrot.

Ye be only wetting yer buckles, matey. Dive a little deeper 'til there be the devil to pay! Y'arrrrrrrr.....

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